Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Jean Gurtorju
climber
land of echoes
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
|
@snorky
Maestri's bolts are not the art work, the art work is the line traced by him on a piece of rock that FOR THIS it becomes art.
Otherwise all the bolts on Torre should be removed, even those of Salvaterra, K&K, Ferrari and why not also Garibotti's.
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:25pm PT
|
Wow, David Lama = idiot. He's pretty much the last living person on earth who should be pontificating over the KK ascent.
|
|
BlackSpider
Ice climber
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
|
Yeah Lama's statement is just dripping with hypocrisy. I'm incredibly impressed with his ascent and the fact that he did it without placing any new bolts, but the fact remains his team did drill 60 new bolts before (even if they were not for climbing) and he was originally planning to rap-bolt the headwall before being talked out of it. For him to speak now about how bolts shouldn't be added or chopped comes off as attempting to white-wash his own history.
|
|
New Age II
climber
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
|
k.k used the bolts on the variant. Why not have unrivet?
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
|
OK NewAge go for it.
|
|
New Age II
climber
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
|
@ Philo
You have been in Patagonia?
Not a problem. They pay me for this
|
|
Jean Gurtorju
climber
land of echoes
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
|
Then the only junk bolts are Maestri's and you can peacefully use all the others and still get it "by fair means"???
|
|
rampik
Social climber
the alps
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
|
ciao amici,
sono nuovo del forum, arrampico da 25 anni e sono stato in patagonia un po' di volte... spero di trovare qui degli amici che abbiano la mia stessa passione e con cui magari condividere delle belle esperienze in montagna.
Ho visto tante belle foto, complimenti!
rampik
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:49pm PT
|
Everyone still posting (including me) is simply proving John Long's point--the deed's been done, the future is here, and we're all just sitting on the sideline yapping about what yesterday was all about.
That route is gone--no more free rides to the summit of Cerro Torre. Toughen up, redirect your dreams elsewhere, or remain a sideliner.
Better yet, create something new somewhere yourself.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
|
The previous post says the following.
Hello friends,
are new to the forum, climb for 25 years and I was in Patagonia some 'times ... I hope to find friends here who have my same passion with which you may share some good experiences in the mountains.
I have seen many beautiful photos, congratulations!
rampik
Very Cool! Welcome Rampik
|
|
rampik
Social climber
the alps
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:51pm PT
|
thanks filo!
nice to meet you
|
|
Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:58pm PT
|
Something to consider, especially in light of the assertion that Cerro Torre is in the domain of Chalten locals (Chalten was built in 1985):
Cerro Torre lies within Argentina's Parque Nacional de los Glaciares, also a UNESCO World Heritage site.
This World Heritage site is called Los Glaciares, and it meets the criteria of a natural, not a cultural, UNESCO site. There are official criteria. While the selection committee determined that the area contains "superlative natural phenomena or areas of exceptional natural beauty and aesthetic importance" and "are outstanding examples representing major stages of earth's history, including the record of life, significant on-going geological processes in the development of landforms, or significant geomorphic or physiographic features", they didn't consider the Compressor Route "to represent a masterpiece of human creative genius", although many folks in this thread have made just that comparison.
Some choice snippets from the UNESCO website:
"World Heritage is the designation for places on Earth that are of outstanding universal value to humanity and as such, have been inscribed on the World Heritage List to be protected for future generations to appreciate and enjoy."
"It is based on the premise that certain places on Earth are of outstanding universal value and should therefore form part of the common heritage of mankind... While fully respecting the national sovereignty, and without prejudice to property rights provided by national legislation, the States Parties recognize that the protection of the World Heritage is the duty of the international community as a whole."
"187 countries (called States Parties) have ratified the Convention, making it an almost universally accepted set of principles and framework of action."
"The site is the property of the country on whose territory it is located, but it is considered in the interest of the international community to protect the site for future generations. Its protection and preservation becomes a concern of the international World Heritage community as a whole." (emphasis added)
"A site can be proposed for inscription only by the country in which the property is located." (So this was Argentina's idea)
"The World Heritage Committee relies on citizens to play an active role in protecting World Heritage sites." (Thanks Hayden and Jason for volunteering.)
|
|
Mike Libecki
climber
the moment of now
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
|
@Middendorf, well said.
|
|
rampik
Social climber
the alps
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
|
sorry for my bad american language, i will utilise a traductor
here is my friend some years ago when we "chopped" all the slovenian route in Torre south face (Karo-Jeglic) and we found too many normal piton in the route...
Cerro Torre is better totally clean, not only bolts but also normal piton...
(photo taken at polacos camp)
|
|
rampik
Social climber
the alps
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 02:00pm PT
|
943, stay tuned
|
|
The cad
climber
Does it matter, really?!?
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 02:01pm PT
|
Since when does one get credit for a route that they didn't finish?
Sure CM did the heavy lifting, but he bailed before the top.
Therefore a historical failure of epic proportions, not a route.
Uh, The Larry is right here!
We've all been wrong for decades.
From now on, let's call it the Bridwell Route.
So, K&K have chopped the Bridwell Route.
What difference does it make?
Ridiculous.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 02:05pm PT
|
Nice post Snorky.
Nice effort and good on you Rampik.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
|
Thanks Mike--Good to see you're still living the dream.
I might have some new gear for you to try out sometime--I'm getting another backyard shop going...
cheers
|
|
New Age II
climber
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
|
@ Philo
Why K.K. have not taken the compressor?
Do you know where the compressor?
|
|
bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 - 02:18pm PT
|
The Compressor truly belongs in a museum somewhere. It's a climbing relic right up there with the Dolt Cart.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!