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Spitzer
climber
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The Earth radiates from the core to the global surface something like 0.8 watts per sq. meter.
rick sumner, why do you keep posting the wrong number when it is so easy to look up the correct one?
"The mean heat flows of continents and oceans are 65 and 101 mW m−2, respectively, which when areally weighted yield a global mean of 87 mW m−2 and a global heat loss of 44.2 × 10^12 W, an increase of some 4–8% over earlier estimates." http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/93RG01249/abstract
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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"Blasphemy" ha.
A buddy is from Wisconsin and he insisted,he packed in 8 brats,frozen,we ate them for 4 days.It was really damn good.
I always bring a clove of garlic and a lemon when i fish,and that skillet.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Well thanks Ron for the answer. I'm beginning to wonder the true extent of the unknowns compared to the knowns of climate science. Ed evaded answering a couple of what should be simple questions if these climate science guys knew their ass from a hole in the ground. It is apparent they haven't a clue how the system as a whole works as there is more unknowns than known. Also the data collection, as MD has stated, is not up to anywhere near what oit should be to make any definitive analysis other than endless and biased manipulation by graphics. Do you have any answers Ed, and please don't resort to the stupidity of answering that it is beyond our comprehension because we are not practitioners of advanced science which has become more akin to voodoo than the science of old.
Looked great Wilbeer, will have to look you up for some campcookery if ever i venture into your region.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Can't believe I missed Chief's source for his graphs...Tisdale. LOLZ! Chief, why don't you tell us how Tisdale arrives at his trend lines?
This should be particularly entertaining if Tisdale's past is any indication (where he was caught "eyeballing" trend lines rather than doing any actual data analysis).
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Well Ed, right up front in the abstract it states there is a lack of data, need deep ocean observatory, can't seperate the source of neutrinos. So the rest is at best a guesstimate.
Does the ocean not have many of the same components as the atmosphere- H2O, CO2, Nitrogen? Besides the commonly accepted surface boundaries doesn't the atmosphere extend into the humus and below into the earth, doesn't it extend into the surface waters, and can't the same be said of earth and water extending into atmosphere? Bear with me, i'm going somewhere.What is the best guesstimate that you are aware of for cause of oceanic oscillations, during a negative oscillation doesn't the sea surface lower- even infintesimally, during a positive phase oscillation doesn't the sea surface rise- even infinitesimally, is there precise mechanisms in place to measure atmospheric boundary layers and changes in volume? What the hell did you climb anyway? There is no trip report, were you too stoned on acid out on the playa to confess what you had wrought.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Spare me the amateur psychoanalysis Bruce- it's getting a little old and stale. Anyway i asked the maestro some valid questions that should be readily answerable, if not common knowledge of a "mature and certain science", and he referred me to a certain table in a whole paper of guesstimation. I did at least get that the actual value is .01 wm-2, rather than the .8 wm-2 i faultily remembered. The CAGW community is expecting IPCC to double down on the certainty of the consensus and a climate sensitivity still well above what even Ed was acknowledging a few months back. Anyway my questions are just a few of the thousands that must be accurately understood, explained, quantified before there can be anything other than bias reported by " the consensus". Surely, you can understand this Bruce.
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skypenguin
Sport climber
Bishop
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I agree that a government top down solution to slow business and cut back individual carbon use will never work. We need innovation to solve this solution with a market approach. When we can produce carbon free energy cheaper than fossil fuels then the economics will solve our carbon problem.
Here's a really neat TED talk about smaller scale and safer nuclear Fission.
http://www.ted.com/talks/taylor_wilson_my_radical_plan_for_small_nuclear_fission_reactors.html
Another longer term program is Nuclear Fusion. I'm not talking about tin-foil hat alien stuff. There are tens of billions being spent on working prototypes right now. It's about the same price as fossil fuels but will be carbon neutral. The Pulse fusion reaction is a really neat example.
Check out this video from Google's engineering talks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhKB-VxJWpg
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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^^gullible^^
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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20 year hiatus? 1993 to 2013. roflmao.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Each 'pause' higher then the next.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Seems to me your the chicken shet Bruce. By your own admission you don't understand, or care to understand, the nuances of the science that allow the ever shriller sky is falling chicken little b.s. to weave it's way into and ( they hope) to capture the fears in the dark recesses of our minds and culture. The only thing i fear is the relentless push of the CAGW zealots for limitation of our freedoms, mobility, and income from carbon taxation. It's not so much for me as i'm set for the remainder of my life. It's my kids and their kids lives i fear for, and the loss of human potential for generations to come. If you weren't in the grip of fear that this scam has instilled successfully in your dark recesses you would also fear the medicine to the imagined disease.
The previous poster pointed out we should be focusing our energies on the real future technologies to replace FF. If the reason for all the hysteria was not for population control and taxation we would be seeing such a push. Not hugely inefficient windmills and solar arrays and carbon taxation.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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psychology is not science Bruce. Get a grip!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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The Chief..I agree with you completely...Does that mean i'm a Noron...?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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I'm patiently waiting for replies to my basic science queastions. Nobody thus far has been forthcoming. Why? If the very most basic parts of the climate system, like the planets overwhelmingly large oceanic heat sinks mechanisms are only vaguely known, what special classification of idiocy is needed to ascribe a 95% certainty to the range of climate sensitivity. Hell, they can't even get the "97% consensus" right through bogus manipulation and false attribution. Would any rational human being trust the direction of their future to such buffoons?
All hail The Chief! The Arctic sea ice melt season started way late, was very anemic, ended early, Alaska's statewide temps have been in a considerable downturn for a decade, spring began the latest in recorded modern history this year, interior temps are plummeting to record temps for this date and if the trend continues we are in for an early winter, looks like in could be another severe high northern lattitude winter worlwide again this year, much the same as the severe southern hemisphere winter of this season. Record cold temps in No. America outpaced heat temps 3 to 1 this year. The worlds ice volume is on the rise with both arctic and antarctic ice increases. Been a very low frequency year, so far, for both tornado's and hurricanes. All of these things are occuring during the solar max of cycle 24 which is just about ready to begin it's decline. Mend your winter wear and prepare for a string of cold winters boys and girls, for the ice man a cometh.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I keep thinking since the 1800's modern man has also trapped or taken out SOO much water from its prior natural habitat. All the billions stored up in pools, toilets, septic tanks, engines,
lakes etc etc. This has got to cause some type of Repercussion! Possible with the lack of ground water, Mother Earth must draw from frozen reserves? Just a theory
Edit: question for BASE, don't they also pump water in when they pump oil out?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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BB,
Fresh water is normally quite shallow. Rarely does it exceed 1000 feet unless it is in a mountain basin with an active hydrodynamic recharge. You don't need to worry about that except the shallow part.
Below fresh water you find saltwater. It gets really salty in places, way over 100,000ppm chlorides.
Oil and gas reservoirs all have a thin coating of saltwater lining the pores. This is a capillary pressure thing.
Most oil and gas wells make some saltwater along with the oil and gas. It is separated out right at the tank battery with a thing called...a separator. The oil goes into the oil tank, the gas goes down the sales pipeline, and the saltwater goes into a saltwater tank. Whenever your water tank gets full, you call the disposal guys, who operate commercial saltwater disposal wells. It is injected into a porous zone that either already contains saltwater, or an oil or gas reservoir that is pressure depleted.
I'm going to a seminar today about the relationship between injection wells and earthquakes. It has long been known that injection wells CAN cause earthquakes, but they are small and it is impossible to predict.
We have an interesting case here in Oklahoma where it looks like a bunch of disposal wells caused a Paleozoic fault to slip, giving us a few hefty, for Oklahoma, earthquakes. Fracking isn't a problem. It is the disposal wells, which are located in all producing areas.
In the old days they let that saltwater just run down the creeks, and it killed every plant and animal that it touched. Almost all of the damage has repaired itself, but it took decades. It is actually worse to get a saltwater spill on your land than an oil spill. You just dig up the oily dirt and haul it off. If it is a little one, bacteria will clean it up in a few years.
Saltwater damage is bad news. It is impossible to fix, and if it gets into the groundwater, you are really screwed. In the big producing states there are attorneys who specialize in this stuff, and a saltwater spill can take a small company down. So we try not to spill a drop of saltwater.
I know. You ask what time it is and I tell you how a watch works.
The only time you inject water to improve production is with a waterflood. That is where you take a depleted field and inject saltwater in some of the wells. The water sweeps up a lot of oil and you can make as much as the field made from primary, although they are expensive to operate. I love waterfloods.
I've been working for 24 hours straight and am a little jittery on coffee.
I don't think that I can blink. Should I call 9-1-1?
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