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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 02:37pm PT
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Even funnier, HDDJ, is that Repubs still blame Clinton for Somalia when in fact it was something he inherited from Bush I.
Actually, funny isn't the right word. It isn't very funny.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 16, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
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NO MORE nation building around the globe.
We are NOT responsible for quelling every civil war,
or feeding the world's starving.
We can't pick and choose who suffers and dies more than others
for that to be the criteria of sending our troops and money.
We have plenty of suffering and dying here in America.
It's US taxpayers money, lets spend it on our own destitute.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 02:45pm PT
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"1. I had a bunch of libs witch-hunting and bankrupting me "
Fact check time: Alaska is dominated by Republicans. They're the ones supposedly witch-hunting her.
Maybe she'll get a job as a book banner. She's pretty well qualified for that.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 02:52pm PT
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Fattrad:
"Obama made a great decision the other day, taking out the Al-Queda(SIC) terrorist, now he needs to send in a real force to clean up Somalia. But, he would need to say, "I don't care about civilian deaths", because they hide behind the women."
Seems pretty clear we are going to have a "peacetime" draft if Jeff makes POTUS.
The New American Century Karl Rove and company ginned up dies hard.
After all. We are the "World's Only superpower (WOS).
ON TOPIC!
Now Off Topic.
Jim(Howard) says he would quit office in a heartbeat if he could make more money giving speeches.
A question:
If you were President and involved in both military and diplomatic efforts at the brink of nuclear war would you quit even though all of the efforts would now be made more uncertain and important relationships broken?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 16, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
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Poor little Lois, so upset by others making such "nasty" comments.
I never attacked you personally, just your political stances.
Typical, play the poor me "victim" card.
Lois, I am honored that I upset you so, you poor dear.
Get out of the kitchen, it's too hot for you here.
Go over to Redstate.com or Hotair.com where everyone will agree with you.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 16, 2009 - 02:57pm PT
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"But it wasn't Barbie's fault, it was McCain's, he did NOT VET HER."
Lol, hahahahahahaha.
Yeah with all that time out in the field stripping with moose she needs a vet.
It is obvious she is suffering from hoof in mouth disease.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:00pm PT
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Fats, with all the whopping steamers you have laid on the forum it is hard to tell which is the biggest. But this...
"Both the League of Nations and the United Nations have proven that there is no such thing as "peace". The evil one."
... has to rank in the top ten.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:00pm PT
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Howweird wrote: "In fact, most dissent to Obama has nothing to do with race."
This is perhaps the single largest and most glaring fabrication coming form the far right. The astonising thing is that simply because they say it - that race is not a factor, or that race is strictly incidental to the far right's message - they somehow expect and actually believe that the rest of the world will believe them. Fact is, this has already been settled on this list - but let me spell it out one more time.
The ethos, the philosophy, the "values," the fear of change and worship of an idealized past - in other words, the fear of anything "different" than what the "founding fathers" (all white) were and stood for - all of these things were fashioned by straight, white, conservatives who presently constiture the far right.
If you should review the demographics of those at the recent protest in Washington, you can clearly see the "Cracker Tabernackle Choir" who are still singing all the far right conservative dross and anti-Obama rhetoric. The far right wing talk show hosts, hack journalists, political strategists and so forth are to the man, white. You simply don't see large, orgainzed Latino or Black groups singing the far right's message. That message is strictly a cracker overature, so to insist that "race" has nothing to do with righ wing politics is to be blind as a bat, since the vast majority of those on the far right are lilly white.
Where the far right gets confused is in thinking that "racism" can be so narrowly defined as to mean one races hatred or intollerence for another race. By insisting that they don't hate Obama's "blackness" or racial makeup, they think they have somehow bypassed the glaring and inherent racism in trying to impose their white bread policies on the rest of the nation, in showing intollerence for and damning and forecasting doom about any views but their own, by assuming that their white man political and economic philosophies are the only viable ones for Americans of different races and cultural backgrounds, to say nothing of this white group wishing the nation should fail rather than taking a path that diverges from the "White Right," that this towering group of white folks knows what's best for the nation and the world, and that the world simply has to accept this group of white folks at face value or else . . .
Clearly, to try and say that race isn't a factor here, that it isn't a bunch of angry, terified white folk who are screaming from the far right, is simply a blatant lie. But the biggest lie coming out of this camp is that their "whiteness" has noting to do with any of this, this despite the simple and incontrovertible fact that those singing from the far right are virtually all white.
To conclude, "white," and the far right, are basically synonomous terms, so to say that race is not a factor is like saying a lizard has nothing to do with being a reptile. A lizard IS a reptile. A right wing conservative IS white. Being white and conservative is not inherently racist. That starts when you begin bashing all others and insisting your white man agenda is the only one the nation has a right to follow or else the nation must fail if the conservative white man, and his philosophies, does not regain power and prominence.
Clearer now?
JL
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jstan
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
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So then Jeff is for War.
Now there are various states of War. There was no serious shooting during the Cold War and certainly no nukes were thrown.
So a question.
Do you consider a hotter war invariably more effective than a cooler war?
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jstan
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
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I agree with Jim that the r's could have done better than either Palin or McCain.
As I remember it, quite a number of people said that at the time of the election.
May I repeat my question? It is a very important one.
Jim, if you were President and involved in both military and diplomatic efforts at the brink of nuclear war would you quit even though all of the efforts would now be made more uncertain and important relationships broken?
On the other point.
The question whether some of what we are seeing is racially motivated stands a risk of becoming both more heated and more confused were a crowd of angry tea baggers to share the same street with a group that is racially more diverse.
In the event the general perception becomes that there is racial motivation the risk of this happening will increase.
I think our country's interests and courteous civil discourse now depends upon the tea bag movement taking action to show this perception is not based upon fact.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
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According to Jonathan malloy, a professor of poly sci at Carleton Univ in Ottawa, a popular Canadian myth is that defibrilators in America only start if you swipe a credit card through them first.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:11pm PT
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The only thing "nasty" about me, to you HWD, is that I speak out
and expose hypocrisy and irrational, unsupported, conservatism.
You don't like it, but it has nothing to do with you personally.
As far as McCain, honestly, he could have chosen any number
of experienced, intelligent Republican governors or Senators
to select as his VP. And if he had, there is no doubt the
election would have been closer, but with the same result.
I do feel sorry for Palin that he picked her. She did the
best she could to rev up the GOP base, and she was good at that.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:11pm PT
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The radicalized fundamentalists of the way white far right are crackers. Call the upper class of them "Ritz". Call the lower class of them "Saltines" The left is more like "stoned wheat thins".
I on the other hand, as a centrist, am "Ak Mak".
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:13pm PT
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WeirdLouis: we will get over it when it s clear the Republicans have. Right wing politicians often use coded or allusive language regarding race. The backbone of McCains political attacks involved making Obama seem "other" or foreign or "not one of us.". It is very hard to tell, coming from a bunch of white people to a bunch of white people about a black guy, what exactly else they might be referring to.
Remember Reagan's "welfare Cadillac queens?" there wasn't much doubt what color there skin was, even though he never explicitly said so.
Glenn Beck has called Obama a racist, and has said that all of his changes are prepping the country for REPARATIONS of all things. So tell me again that were reading too much into this whole race thing.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:14pm PT
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I can't speak for Largo, but I know quite a few people for whom race is a big deal and are willing to speak frankly about it. They don't like the fact that there are so many Mexicans and no way in hell would they vote for a black man for President. They don't like this country being browener: they resent it.
Most people who feel this way are too PC to say such things aloud. They might not even admit it to themselves. Maybe you don't see such people. But while reasonable people can disagree about his policies, there is a loud, visible, inarticulate, and seemingly inchoate anger directed at him.
They'll blast him for being too muslim, too foregin, too socialist, too fascist, too "other." They might leave out "too black" but it is right at the tips of their tongues.
Race is still a big, big deal in this country.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:18pm PT
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And there is also some data for this.
During the election a sizeable portion of the electorate in some states--I want to say 40% of folks in west VA but it's been a year or so since this was released, so my memory might be fuzzy--stated they would not vote for a black person. You can bet that a lot of others feel this way but would not come out and say it.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:19pm PT
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the "Cracker Tabernackle Choir" who are still singing all the far right conservative dross and anti-Obama rhetoric.
The best part about this thread is that it's fodder for Largo to unleash his awesome rhetoric.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:20pm PT
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Lois, you'll never change, you only see what you want to see.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:20pm PT
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"I believe that wars for the freedom of oppressed or deprived people are noble endeavors, particularly if the potential foe doesn't share our belief systems or seeks our downfall."
So jeff, by your own words I must assume that you (secretly) support the Palestinian struggle against occupation and for independence. Good on ya!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 16, 2009 - 03:21pm PT
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WeirdLouis: I "heard" Glenn Beck, a major force behind the current unrest, call Obama a racist and say that all this is building up to reparations for slave descendants.
It's not what I WANTED to hear. It's what I heard. So tell me exactly what I'm reading too much into. The collective message couldn't be any clearer. It's not necessarily YOUR beliefs, but it is the rhetoric of your party.
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