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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Herbie Hancock climbs...?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mighty Hiker...Great beat down on fattrad...Why should the US keep giving the jews free money so that they can beat the crap out of the palestinny's...Screw Israel and fund the SS...social sicurity that is...:]
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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I like soccer.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Graniteclimber,
Your charts on your (in my opinoin unnecessary) other thread suffer from static analysis and the assumption that an initiated policy of one year cannot be changed in another.
First, the assumption of decreased revenue from the Bush tax cuts assumes that if the rates stayed the same, the revenue would increase. I, and many other practicing economic forecasters, believe that if the rates stayed the same, economic activity would have contracted further, and revenue might well have been even less -- and outlays greater.
For that reason, if no other, I reject utterly the idea that they contributed to the deficit. If they were so evil, why not rescind them now? Answer: because you would impose the greatest single tax increase on middle class taxpayers ever.
If the war expenditures are so unnecessary, why hasn't Obama ended them? Answer: He considers them necessary, too.
Everything in those charts is skewed and slanted. When the source chooses to be objective, it may be worthwhile. Otherwise, it's just more propaganda.
P.S. Your last chart clearly shows that deficits are lowest when Republicans control Congress!
John
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Everything in those charts is skewed and slanted
Coming from someone who essentially just supported trickle-down Laffer curve nonsense in the same post, this is rich indeed.
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apogee
climber
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"...because you would impose the greatest single tax increase on middle class taxpayers ever."
I see you've swallowed that spin, hook, line & sinker, John. Shrub's tax cuts were never intended to be permanent- at least not according to the way they were written. And though they've been extended, they are still not technically permanent, either- they are sure be back on the negotiating table very soon.
Though they were written that way, the Repubs knew damn well that to let them expire would be a tough political package to sell, so it's easy to argue that there effect is permanent. If the Dems had half the political savvy-ness of the Repubs on tough issues, they'd put the cost of those tax cuts front and center in every media source they could find.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dr.F
You should know that the Congressional Research Service is require to score tax changes statically. In other words, if we reduce tax rates by 10%, we reduce revenues by 10%. If we increase tax rates by 10%, we increase tax revenue by 10%. If the economists you rely on believe that, fire them, and hire me. If you don't rely on econmists to estimate the change in revenue from tax changes, that's a different story.
Apogee,
Tax changes are tax changes. If we reinstated tax rates as they existed when Congress reduced them in 2001, we would impose the greatest single increase in middle class tax rates year-to-year. Saying that the 2001 rates were supposed to expire doesn't change that analysis.
John
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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John said;
P.S. Your last chart clearly shows that deficits are lowest when Republicans control Congress!
Many forget that Congress legislates spending for the country. Sure the Prez can veto or sign budgets, but Congress is a better arbiter of the economy in terms of charts. Not who's in the White House.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Who exactly do you think proposes a budget to the Congress that acts as the framework and starting point for the buget process?
Bluering, there's an old saying "it's better to remain silent and be thought ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". You'd do well to heed that since you rarely, if ever, have even half a f*#king clue about the topics you spray your nonsense all over.
Mexico is in South America after all.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dow falls 512 in steepest decline since '08 crisis
I attribute this directly to the games that the Repubs played with the obligations the US had to pay it's debts (the debt ceiling), and the uncertainty that it created as to whether the US would make good on it's word. Even now, it is uncertain as to whether they US will maintain it's AAA ratings.
Great uncertainty has been created. This is very difficult to erase. It translates to damage to the country. How this unpatriotic attack on the country will translate, will ramain to be seen, probably on tuesday in Wisconson.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Who exactly do you think proposes a budget to the Congress that acts as the framework and starting point for the buget process?
Bluering, there's an old saying "it's better to remain silent and be thought ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". You'd do well to heed that since you rarely, if ever, have even half a f*#king clue about the topics you spray your nonsense all over.
Mexico is in South America after all.
Will, did Obama propose anything to the Congress recently??? He had nothing!
Maybe you should read your quote about remaining silent.
EDIT: Mexico is in South America after all.
Not sure what that point is. Must reference a previous quote of mine. Technically it is Central America, but I commonly refer to everything south of San Diego as South America. I lump them together.
I don't see how that is ignorant. Everything south of our sovereign southern border is SA in my book.
You're a real arrogant dick. And you love to leg-hump on my posts. Join the f*#king club...
EDIT:
Who exactly do you think proposes a budget to the Congress that acts as the framework and starting point for the buget process?
And who is the f*#king idiot here? The Congress is tasked with budgets and PROPOSALS AND DIRECTION OF SPENDING. READ THE CONSTITUTION!!!!
Maybe you should STFU and take your own advice to heart! The Prez just signs or vetoes the stuff.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Who exactly do you think proposes a budget to the Congress that acts as the framework and starting point for the buget process?
Where did he go??? I'm so tired of people accusing me of stupidity, only to realize their ignorance, and then hiding without admitting they were wrong. Or at least debating the topic.
Shows a real lack of character and humility.
And that is really lame and a bad show of personal responsibilty and character.
It just is sad, and one of the problems in our society lately. Throw out accusations and blame and fail to apologize when you're proven wrong.
Really f*#king lame!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Fatty said Either way, Obama is done, stick a fork in him.
Between that and the "hopey changey" (that's usually how they spell it) squawkers you guys are really hurting for original one liners here. Furthermore, the more sure of something you are the more confident I get that it's wrong, considering that basically every other prediction or declaration you've made on this forum has come to not pass.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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I predicted this crisis three years ago.
So did Fatty, JLz and a few others.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Dr. F said I predicted 10 years ago the the Republicans were trying to sabotage the American economy by massive spending, tax cuts and deregulation so they can impose a terrible austerity program, that would Only make thing worse
I kind of felt that way until they passed Medicare Part D. Then it was just insanely obvious.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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I predicted 10 years ago the the Republicans were trying to sabotage the American economy by massive spending, tax cuts and deregulation so they can impose a terrible austerity program, that would Only make things worse
So why didn't Dems change that when they had control of both houses of Congress and the White House?
They DID have full control from 2008 to 2010. That's when the sh#t hit the fan ironically.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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TGT...you mean the crisis Bush initiated with his scorched earth economic policies...? Don't forget that this crisis started under Bushes watch...Sabe..! What have the republicans done to resolve this crisis...? Not a goddamn thing other than bash Obama and sabotage any attempts to fix the problems......Chris matthews made a keen observation a few nights ago..That observation was that George Bush is still the president of the US because our country is in the same place economically when Bush was overwhelmingly booted out of office....Obama is trying to pull us out of this depression -recession and the do nothing Republicans continue Bush's economic agenda by stonewalling any attempts by the democrats to stimulate the economy....Remember that we got out of the great depression only because a democratic president got the government involved in helping the economy...As Dr. F said...the repubs don't want us to get out of this recession because their most important base , the rich, are being given special treatment and prospering while the rest of America circles the drain...The repubs are blinded by their idealogical lies and selective amnesia... America has become a private country club for the elite...the republicans...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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rj, at what point is Obama liable? At what point do his decision and lack of actions become apparent?
When does his spending fall into the 'blame-game'?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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bluering raged So why didn't Dems change that when they had control of both houses of Congress and the White House?
They DID have full control from 2008 to 2010. That's when the sh#t hit the fan ironically.
What should they have done during that time, bluering? Economy in free fall, hemorrhaging jobs....that's when the federal gov't SHOULD be borrowing. Additionally, while the Dems held a majority in the Senate, it wasn't a big enough one to break filibusters meaning that Repubs could block everything. The Affordable Care Act largely pays for itself, and the Dems tried to reinstate the Paygo philosophy. The Republican gov't passed Part D and argued entirely on ideological grounds that it had to be done in the most expensive way possible while borrowing every dime used to pay for it.
Bluering continued At what point do his decision and lack of actions become apparent?
Lack of action on what? What should he be doing or have been doing? You are normally a "government should keep their hands off" kind of guy so I'm curious what you think that he hasn't acted on that he should.
I interviewed a lady for a project in the spring of 2010. She was mad that the government had done nothing...NOTHING to help them during this hard time. When I asked her what she felt like the government should be doing she thought for a moment and then said, "Just leave us alone. They should just butt out and leave us alone." I had to scribble imaginary notes very hard while nodding understandingly to keep from chortling.
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