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jstan
climber
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But legs blown off so Dick' Cheney's Halliburton stock in a "blind" trust would go up in value is what it cracked up to be. That's cool.
And the people who set us up for this also set us up for the medical care not cracking up.
Any surprises here?
Edit:
That's OK Jeff. I allowed for the chance I would have to take it back.
I very clearly remember Kennedy was reducing the number of advisors, the advisors being a huge mistake. A huge mistake that Johnson and then Nixon made into a monstrous mistake. Thanks to W we have established ever higher standards for our ability to live in La La land. We are advancing!
Advancing so far we now have normal people faithfully parroting whatever mindless message anyone cares to float.
So it is we know where the problem is. Us.
When their Empire stopped producing a profit in the 50's. the Brits calmly faced up to it and cut their losses. The US is too macho to do that. Our answer is, calmly, to slit our own throats.
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jstan
climber
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Somebody, I don't know who, left Obama facing a collapsed financial industry in the US and the possibility of a depression he had to respond to. And he was blessed with the republicans using the threat of filibuster to shut down any Congressional action.
Your memory is very selective Skip.
Yes, I remember the Crusades. If the christians had had any backbone they would have done an Osama on Mohammed. The socialists must have been in power,
At this point Jesus must be regretting everything he did on earth. He's thinking, "Oiy veh! What was I thinking when I picked that planet?"
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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The socialists must have been in power,
Actually, John, they were, if we define socialism as state ownership of the means of production. Everything belonged to the state in western Europe in the late middle ages.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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And if we could turn back the clock 30 years, Reagan and Obama could co-exist in the same political corner.
Really? Reagan championed tax cuts for all Americans. Obama champions tax increases for the most productive ones.
Reagan believed in carrying a big stick. Obama believes that if we get rid of our big sticks, everyone will love us.
Reagan believed that governmental regulation was a last resort. Obama believes it is the first, if not only, resort.
Reagan appointed an ambassador to the U.N. who criticized "those who blame America first." Obama blames America first.
Reagan believed that America was founded to be different from, and better than, the Old World. Obama wants America to follow the Old World.
John
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Runny RayGun was the worst president in US history. Remember in his zeal to unnecessarily cut social programs to increase the government handouts to his uber-wealthy corporate puppet masters he had the audacity to have catsup declared a vegetable for school lunch programs. The man was a closet Facist pig. The damage he caused and the process of de-democratization he started is how we got in this handbasket to begin with. To the contrary, when all is said and done, Obama will be considered one of the better presidents ever.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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skipt,
I didn't get a chance to respond to yesterday's post. I'm not sure that we disagree so much in the long run scheme of things. I just thought we missed a great opportunity to force the Democrates either to accept a tougher bill, or set themselves up for the blame for extending the "debt crisis."
I do appreciate your reference to what got Carter elected. I think a lot of that was the ability of the Democrats to blame Ford for the 1974-75 recession, as well as lukewarm support for his reelection among certain circles of Republicans. At the time, I was quite down on those on the right for giving us Carter, but one of my grad school classmates accurately predicted that four years of Carter would lead to conservative gains later that would never happen had Ford been reelected. While I can never prove a counter-factual, i suspect he was right.
John
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Wow Skippity poopoo not only does irony escape you but reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Do you even climb or are you LEB in DRAG?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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But Rokjox, they're all true. In no way would Obama and Reagan ever be in the same political corner, except that both recognize (at least now) that the President owes a duty to the American People to defend the country.
John
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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John wrote: Really? Reagan championed tax cuts for all Americans. Obama champions tax increases for the most productive ones.
But had no problem raising taxes, doubling the deficit and triple government spending.
John wrote: Reagan believed in carrying a big stick. Obama believes that if we get rid of our big sticks, everyone will love us.
Yes invading Granada was arrow in America's quiver. The contra arms deal was another. Don't forget "Just say No" another war created by Reagan. The war against labor and workers rights...another victory for RR.
John wrote: Reagan believed that governmental regulation was a last resort. Obama believes is it the first, if not only, resort.
That is why he increase the size of government.
John please answer this...Ronald Reagan raise taxes, triple spending, doubled the deficit and increase the debt ceiling 11 times...was he a good to great president???
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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They love him because he was a union buster. Remember when he destroyed the union of air traffic controllers and brought a bunch of scabs in. For 18 months we had the most dangerous and bolloxed skies in the world. Yea a great unAmerican.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Bob,
Several of the numerical comparisons you use are true only in current, not constant, dollars. We experienced tremendous inflation when Reagan took office. His policy of non-interference with the Fed under Paul Volcker ended that.
He took office with a demoralized, lower funded military. Yes, he increased their budget, and deserves much credit for ending the cold war favorably.
Overall, tax rates were much higher when he took office than when he left, but tax revenue was much higher. Some of that revenue increase reflects inflation, as does the spending increase, but a lot of that revenue increase reflects tax code changes that ended confiscatory marginal rates and eliminated several tax shelters.
Yes, he raised taxes when he felt that was necessary. I've already commented on my opposition to those who reflexively oppose any means of increasing government revenue.
He took office in an era of both high gasoline prices and gasoline shortages. By ending petroleum price controls and punitve petroleum taxation, we got greater supply and lower prices.
Perhaps most remarkably, he did this with an often hostile House and a slim majority -- and often a minority -- in the Senate. He appointed excellent judges that were, by and large, confirmed without the acrimony that has become commonplace now.
He was easily one of the most effective presidents in my lifetime (1951-)(Johnson would be the other, because of his ability to get laws through Congress), and clearly the best by my measure. When he took office, America was demoralized, the economy was weak, and Communism seemed poised for an international triumph. When he left office, America was strong, self-confident, and on the verge of winning the cold war.
John
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apogee
climber
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John, I could have been more accurate in stating that given the extremist state of the GOP these days, Reagan would be considered a moderate Republican (and a RINO by many of the party)- similarly, the manner in which Obama has implemented a number of policies thusfar (policies that are classically conservative priorities) has placed him as a right-leaning leftie. If both of them could be compared by today's political standards, they'd be awfully close to each other somewhere towards the middle of that spectrum.
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apogee
climber
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Yeah, I know you see him that way, fattrad, but if that's the case, he's a pretty weak-willed Socialist. He has repeatedly begun negotiations from a middle ground position, and allowed the process to move rightward from there.
No, I'd say he's a liberal with average negotiation skills.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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You repugthugs apoligists are being outposted 4 to 1 here
Ah, but quality times quantity is a constant!
John
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Jorroh
climber
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"He took office with a demoralized, lower funded military. Yes, he increased their budget, and deserves much credit for ending the cold war favorably".
American aggression towards Russia vis a vis the arms race no doubt played a small part. But the idea that Reagan was responsible for the downfall of the USSR is pure fantasy. The roles played by Gorbachev, and Walesa and the polish labour movement on the other hand were huge.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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TGT said The "stimulus" did far more damage than good.
Ok. How? How did it do more damage? Who was put out of work because of the stimulus? There are hundreds of people who have been laid off in the last month because of reduction in spending by the NH government. It's a clear cause and effect there. There will be thousands who will lose their jobs because of the cuts from the Debt Ceiling law that was just passed. Clear cause and effect there. Show me the tens of thousands of jobs that were lost because of an increase in government spending in 2009.
TGT quipped How's that hopey changie thing workin out for ya?
How's that still parroting memes from 2009 while blindly copy/pasting information you don't understand on the web thing workin out for ya?
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apogee
climber
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"The "stimulus" did far more damage than good."
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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The roles played by Gorbachev, and Walesa and the polish labour movement on the other hand were huge.
Yeah, RR rolled Gorby in Iceland and the CIA was supporting and funding the Polish labor movement thru an alliance with Pope John.
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