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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I agree Blue...100%...In Germany , according to a German friend , insurance is mandatory but very affordable....So everyone gets covered and everyone contributes...As i recall , Germanys' economy is rolling along pretty strong...don't know if this is true but am going on what my nazi friend told me...I believe this is what Clinton was after with his health care bill...trying to get everyone to contribute to share the cost.. but as usual the Republican Fear Mongers whitewashed the Clinton plan..An Aussie DR. friend of mine read the Clinton bill years later and thought it was a good program..He votes Republican...I just don't buy anything the Republicans spew because it's always scare tactics right off the bat..no intelligent discussion , just everyone is going to die mentality to overshadow what the dems offer...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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TGT...Alchohol abuse in DC?...any job openings back there...?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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You don't go to Cuba or Canada for cancer treatment ...
I guess you're not Hugo Chavez ...
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apogee
climber
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Well, that POS teabagging ransom capitulation bill has now made it through the House, and now the Senate. Just needs one more signature.
Aside from the basic gist of the bill- tax cuts with no explicit revenue increases- the details of where those cuts will occur aren't totally clear. Anyone wanna bet how public opinion is gonna get louder on tax rates for the 1% once some of those cuts are announced and implemented?
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apogee
climber
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Hey.... did the 'Skip is an ASS' thread get nuked? By who?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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There aren't any significant cuts!
The only real cut is next year and that's the equivalent to two and a half days of federal spending.
Deficit spending will still increase and federal budgets will still go up.
Just by maybe 7.89999% per year instead of 8%
(wish I got an automatic 8% raise every year!)
We will still pile an aditional nine trillion on our progeny and our credit rating will still be downgraded.
Welcome to Greece #II
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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TGT wrote: There aren't any significant cuts!
Keep voting republican...LOL
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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IMHO, the Teapartyers complaining about this bill need to look in the mirror. The Boehner bill was imperfect, but far better for reducing spending and holding everyone's feet to the fire. Had the House passed it when it was first introduced, it would have put much more pressure on the Democrats.
Academics and other folks on the sidelines (like me) can indulge in ideological purity. Representatives and Senators, however, need to be politicians in the best sense of the word, meaning that they practice the art of the possible. As the old saying goes, the perfect is the enemy of the best.
This bill does much less than advertised -- other than extending the debt limit far enough that it is unlikely to be reached until after 2012. It is, nonetheless, a step in the direction conservatives seek. While we have a great deal of work to do, let's not overlook how the Washington D.C. Democrats felt compelled to surrender on explicit tax hikes now (Yes, I know, the Super Committee can be their way to sneak them back on the table). That provides rather strong evidence that even the Democrats there recognize the sea change manifested in the 2010 elections.
John
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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John wrote: This bill does much less than advertised -- other than extending the debt limit far enough that it is unlikely to be reached until after 2012.
And fatty thinks the republicans won this...hilarious.
Obama again make them look like the whack jobs they really are. Looking forward to the 2012 elections.
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apogee
climber
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"As the old saying goes, the perfect is the enemy of the best."
I always thought it was more along the lines of 'letting perfect become the enemy of the good'? Similar to 'progress, not perfection'? In the context of what this bill holds, that must have been a typo- it's far from best or perfect for anyone.
Edit: In fact, it's a ridiculous solution to a non-issue- raise the feckin' debt ceiling, like it has been done without any fanfare over 74 times.
"That provides rather strong evidence that even the Democrats there recognize the sea change manifested in the 2010 elections."
I'd like to think the Dems are just playing smart politics with this, and letting the effects of the cuts make their case for increased revenues (at least via a tighter tax code and letting ridiculous, expensive tax cuts expire), but I doubt that's the case. Obama has once again demonstrated his negotiation style: start in the middle, and move further to the Right.
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jstan
climber
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http://www.borowitzreport.com/
Debt Ceiling is Raised Before Tea Party Understands What It Is
GOP Begins Hard Work of Creating Next Crisis
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) In an historic eleventh-hour bipartisan accord, the United Statesı debt ceiling was raised Sunday night before the Tea Party understood what it was.
In an effort to gain as many Tea Party votes as possible, the debt ceiling bill was drafted entirely in one-syllable words, congressional aides said.
But even as the final agreement was being put to bed, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) urged his Republican colleagues not to rest on their laurels: ³Now, let us begin the hard work of creating the next crisis.²
According to those close to the negotiations, the GOP in Congress were under pressure to get a deal done before the observance of the official Republican holiday, Shark Week.
Additionally, the Chinese government had warned that if the U.S. defaulted on its Treasuries, China was prepared to take full ownership of Washington and rename it Wang Chung.
In the end, though, Sen. McConnell said the Republicans stood to benefit the most from striking a deal that warded off financial calamity: ³We deserve full credit for finding the antidote, even though we were the ones who administered the poison.²
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apogee
climber
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"But even as the final agreement was being put to bed, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) urged his Republican colleagues not to rest on their laurels: ³Now, let us begin the hard work of creating the next crisis.²"
Ha! That's really funny...
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apogee,
I am not saying this bill is the best. I am implicitly arguing that conservatives could have done better had we not been so intransigent (to use a term on another thread). I don't see how any immediate scenario will bring support for general tax increases. The only tax increases that I see as politically possible are those that people don't realize they're paying, like corporate income tax or a VAT.
Skipt,
I agree that the battle is far from over. Where I disagree with Tea Party orthodoxy is that this bill is worse than where we were before it. I think fattrad is right -- cuts will happen in some areas that are politically difficult to cut, like defense and entitlements.
What I would like to hear from the Tea Party leaders is more of an emphasis on what we should spend government money on, and what we should not. Government has unique functions that only it can do best -- defense, police and fire protection, support at some level for those unable to compete, and provision of other public or merit goods and services. It does a poor job when all it does is distribute money in a way designed to buy votes. The economic results of the last two years speak for themselves on that score.
What I fear is that they become so reflexive in their opposition to government revenue that people stop taking them seriously. Despite Dr. F.'s comments that started his original thread, the Tea Party stands for a legitimate need, namely controlling government expenses. If people perceive that, instead, they simply want to end all government expenses, then most people will reach Dr. F.'s conclusion, and the Tea Party will become irrelevant.
John
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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How about geting rid of the fiction of "baseline budgeting" that has led to a 7-8% increase every year since 1974 and then reducing spending by one percent every year?
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apogee
climber
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"If people perceive that, instead, they simply want to end all government expenses, then most people will reach Dr. F.'s conclusion, and the Tea Party will become irrelevant."
For this reason, it would have been in the best interests of America if Boehner had been unable to sway the teabaggers in the House, and we had defaulted. Nothing like another economic crash to show just how wrong the Repubs have been on everything, especially letting the teabaggers drive the bus.
Edit: Hey, TGT...what's your source?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is prepared to base talks for a Palestinian state on the 1967 truce lines in what appears to be a major policy retreat, ...
Isn't this what fattrad said would happen? Yes, I believe this is exactly what he said would happen after Obama suggested this to Netanyahu a couple of months ago.
Another BIG WIN for FATTY!
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Jorroh
climber
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Government has unique functions that only it can do best -- defense, police and fire protection, support at some level for those unable to compete, and provision of other public or merit goods and services. It does a poor job when all it does is distribute money in a way designed to buy votes.
Holy sh#t Skupt, Fattrad, JZ's a socialist...now what does that mean again?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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William Kristol spouts off on the debt deal;
this deal governs policy for the next decade, it will be hard for the US to remain a sole superpower," warned Weekly Standard editor and leading neo-conservative ideologue William Kristol.
Hey Billy Boy, you f*#king sack of sh#t, this notion of the US being the "sole superpower" is absurd. For one thing superpowers don't let petty partisan politics drive them into bankruptcy.
Sometimes I wish I could superglue Kristol and Limbaugh ass to mouth and create the worlds first perpetual motion machine.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Irony escapes you doesn't it Skippity?
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