Crimpergirl'a op-ed article in the New York Times

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neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Dec 23, 2014 - 05:08pm PT
hey there say, cimper... wow, i saw this, at the facebook share...

congratulations again, for you getting published... (my dad read that paper, too) :)


say, and hard to get a paper to present things, when you have a word limit, for sure...


i like what feralfae said:

Callie, good work! I hope your studies help to open more dialogue about the issues of violence, especially sexual violence, against women in this country


without articles... and without attention being focused to issues, no one talks about anything... no one learns, studies, or tries to solve...

you got a good spotlight, spot, there...

keep up your good work, callie, in all things that you do... :)
folks will be inspired to work with what they read--at least we can hope...
Willoughby

Social climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 23, 2014 - 05:29pm PT
HFCS - count me, along with Pinker, among the fussy minority.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 23, 2014 - 05:54pm PT
Fascinating read, Callie!

It makes logical sense though despite there being a lack of data to prove it amongst "less privileged" women and girls.

I need to read the rest of it, I just read a few paragraphs...Nice job though.
pc

climber
Dec 23, 2014 - 06:04pm PT
Congratulations Callie!

Well presented article. Some of the comments on the NYT site are unreal. There are a lot of evil jackasses out there. Don't take them personally.

Cheers,
Peter
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Dec 23, 2014 - 07:28pm PT
I was just curious what it would look like.

Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 22, 2014 - 05:36pm PT
It's in today's paper. I figured someone would have posted up on this by now. I love the NYT op-ed section. It's a pretty big deal (Ron Burgundy big) to get published here.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/opinion/who-suffers-most-from-rape-and-sexual-assault-in-america.html?_r=0

Congrats Callie. That is a real honor and an important message too.

I am not surprised at your general results. But I am surprised that your study is one of so few. Quantifying a problem is critical.

Thanks, Greg, and extra big thanks to Crimpergirl.

Proud Crimpie!

There's been a great movement in the past few years to bring better education and understanding about the realities of rape and sex crimes against women. Of course it had to start with high-profile cases revolving well-loved college fraternities, but the ball got rolling and it has been both refreshing and saddening to see so many women come forth with stories and help to other victims.

There aren't many women in my circles who have not been abused or molested. I've spent more hours staring stone-faced at the floor while a happy and vibrant human lets me in on a darkness that they fight daily. I know our world is getting better, and things are getting better, but things are bad - REAL bad. Even in the best societies.

For the life of me I can't imagine doing those acts - not that I'm some kind of saint, I've sinned enough for a lifetime or two - but there is something innately despicable about forcing yourself on someone and taking their innocence that goes beyond my understanding. As my youthfully ignorant eyes are opened I am overwhelmed by the reality of the damage and the heart of the survivors.

Thanks for the link, I loved it. A great perspective.

Wow. Great and timely OP ED Callie. Right on!



Greg's comments are interesting- a few days ago, in another thread, someone derided the person who got their stuff stolen from their truck for not adequately securing their stuff- as though this person was somehow & to some degree mutually complicit & to blame for losing their stuff to some scumbag.

My impression of that position at that time brought me to the same viewpoint related to rape, esp. as in college environments. (I didn't bring it up at that time as it seemed too hyperbolic of a comparison.) There is a disturbing, real point of view out there that victims of rape who dress a particular way, drink too much, or say something in a particular way, are therefore complicit in what happens to them.

This point of view makes me nauseated....that it could possibly exist and somehow seem acceptable to anyone in our supposedly 'advanced' society. Greg's right...things are still bad out there.

Way to GO, CG!

Thanks Eeeyonkee for sharing. I'm glad folks are enjoying the piece. It's a shame that sexual violence continues to be a terrible problem here in the USA, but happy it is receiving increased attention. Hopefully that will make a difference.

Well done!

Nice work, Crimp!

Good work, Callie.
Good framing with the recent interest in sexual assault at colleges.

Do you have a PDF version of a paper where you go beyond
one-variable stratifications (which are the right starting point).
I am thinking you probably estimated a logit model where age and the
other factors are all considered at the same time,
and see what comes in as most significant after age.
Although it would quickly get too technical for an op-ed, probably.

Awesome stuff, Callie.

Way to represent!

Brvavo!

Good on ya crimpie. That must have been a hard piece to write.

Wow, Crimpie, you have arrived!

Glad you shine a light on this topic. At the high school where I teach (60% qualifying for free lunch) an enormous fist is coming down on social media harassment and sexting. Males and females are equal offenders no matter the race or social class. With so many suspensions and law enforcement penalties, kids are finally "getting it." Schools all over CA are being sued for turning a blind eye.

Had my friends and I not taught Maya Angelou's I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings recently, we wouldn't have had girls come forward to report their molestation resembling the protagonist.

Change is happening to protect teens.

I'm very proud of Callie's hard work on this :-) We had sushi for dinner to celebrate - yum.

Brava! Callie, good work! I hope your studies help to open more dialogue about the issues of violence, especially sexual violence, against women in this country. We seem to have more than our share of it in this nation.

So glad to see the work you are doing, thank you
feralfae

Testify!!!

Clint - I sent you a PM. Let me know if it doesn't arrive.

the rest of the night off, mkay?


:) Thanks Reilly - will do. :) And thanks to the rest of you for your kind words.

Excellent! Thanks for a great article.


Susan

Callie that was an awesome piece. Thanks for the hard work you did to get it published :-D !!!

Outstanding work, and well-deserved recognition, Callie. I, too, would be interested in any multivariate statistics. While it doesn't surprise me (sad to say), it still saddens me that sexual assault and rape are two more indignities that the poorest women experience disproportionately.

John

This is important work and it's fantastic to have the opportunity to get it out to such a wide audience through the NYT.

Congratulations on the work and the high profile publication.

Congrats. Strangely enough I was just wondering the other night what you'd been up to.

Congrats on the national media exposeure for your research. Hopefully there will now be more attention on this horrible situation.

Kind of odd that that the only metric for rape cited in this article was income---- but not all that surprising, given that we are talking NY Times here.

That rape is more common amonst the economically and socially "disadvantaged" is not news.
Who funded this eye-opening revelation? Not the taxpayer I hope.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Dec 24, 2014 - 05:54am PT
Congrats

Rape is highly under reported and the stats quoted are "estimated."

Quote from the article
"I recently tried to answer this question by comparing female sexual victimization rates with a variety of social and economic disadvantage measures from National Crime Victimization Survey data, from 1992 to 2012. These data, like all data, are imperfect, and it is believed that they underestimate sexual victimization rates to some degree. But for my purpose this underestimation was unimportant since it was constant and therefore would not affect the relative differences between groups."

As a scientist, I think that this assumption (constant underestimated rate) is unfounded without data to show that under reporting is, indeed, constant across all groups. Because my feeling is that women who are disenfranchised are more likely to not report than other women.

FYI, I used to volunteer in a rape crisis center as a rape crisis counselor during medical school.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 24, 2014 - 06:29am PT
We know that reporting TO POLICE differs across groups. I've researched and published a lot in this area.

The survey used does not gather data from police, so differential reporting rates to the police do not affect the rates shown here.

Sierra - Why do you feel that in responding to a survey, college females and non-college females would reveal their victimizations to us differently to such a degree as to affect rates of violence shown here?

Also, if that is the case, how would you demonstrate/measure that?

Serious questions.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Dec 24, 2014 - 06:50am PT
Why do you feel that in responding to a survey...

Serious answer.

If you are going to make assumptions that affect your data anlysis, then you have to be prepared to provide evidence to support your assumptions.

I am not sure that there is a difference in reporting on a survey, but there could be a difference. You have already stated that there is a difference in reporting to police - so why would you then assume that there would not a difference in reporting elsewhere? I think that's a leap without some evidence to support that believe.

I don't know whether or not there is is is not a difference, but it's something to consider.

How would you measure under-reporting on a survey? Ha! Good question! That's why I despise research and I stay in the clinical world.

Anyway, this is all nit-picking that you should expect when publishing research, it's the nature of the game. Good luck!



Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 24, 2014 - 07:04am PT
I've been publishing a long time and I don't mind getting critical comments. Academia is loaded with lots of critical comments! Believe me, I have plenty about my own work too as I know that no data, methods, analysis or research are perfect.

The difficult thing about asking people things - whether on a survey or in a physician's office - is that it is imperfect. Without survey research or survey's given to patient's in a waiting room, we would be operating based on total guesses and personal hunches which doesn't make for good science or medicine.

I was curious about your thoughts about which group would be less likely to report RSA to a survey and why. And your reasons for why you think one group would do so to a degree that would affect rates. I'm quite open to others' ideas - that's why I asked.

edit: Also, oddly, the differences in reporting to police go counter to my hunches - that is, the least powerful groups report to police more. If that translated over to the survey, it'd just widen this gap. I'm not really sure I can justify applying that to differential answers given in a survey (different from non-response in a survey). I just can't figure out a reason for why one group would lie or withhold or misrepresent information to a large degree. I'm open to others' ideas.

double edit: Thanks for your response. I'm genuinely curious.


hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Dec 24, 2014 - 07:21am PT
Thanks for stepping up
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
Dec 24, 2014 - 08:49am PT
I wonder if different groups of women have different levels of shame about being raped/abused and this has a effect on reporting. Shame, guilt, self-blame, and dissociation are common in these crimes. These internal states would affect how and whether a woman reports abuse.

As a clinician, I'm on the front lines of treating women (and men) survivors so this kind of research moves me.

I look forward to following the further outcomes of your research.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Dec 24, 2014 - 08:49am PT
I was curious about your thoughts about which group would be less likely to report RSA to a survey and why

I would think that women who feel disenfranchised would feel: "Why bother?" because they feel that nothing is going to happen anyway. A counter argument is since it is an anoymous survey then the same women would report because "finally" someone was asking.

As I said, just food for thought. It would be very difficult to design a study to test such a hypothesis.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:28am PT
Anyway, the article starts with a real life example of an intoxicated female going into an 18 year old freshman's dorm room, undressing, and climbing into his bed. You can guess what follows, but 9 months later she accuses him of rape and he is ousted from the university without trial. Come on, we can do better than that.

It is important to understand, in this scenario, that an intoxicated person cannot give consent. Neither can an unconscious person, nor an underage person (although not the situation, here).

There doesn't need to be a trial if a well-established rule was broken, and the alleged person agrees to the fact of the breaking. I believe that falls into contracts.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:33am PT
There is evidence of differences in revealing this by age. For example, older (dare I say senior. :)) women are thought to be less likely to reveal it. The comparison groups I used for this are 18-24 year olds so I doubt age matters (an assumption).

Of course there could be a difference, but I can't make a reasonable argument as to why there would be one with these two groups. And it seems that testing for it is impossible since we'd have to rely on what they say.

Lots of work to be done.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:44am PT
I was curious about your thoughts about which group would be less likely to report RSA to a survey and why. And your reasons for why you think one group would do so to a degree that would affect rates. I'm quite open to others' ideas - that's why I asked.

I would have thought that a disadvantaged group would have had a lower reporting of a RSA on a survey than actual, for a couple of cultural reasons.

More educated people are far more used to surveys and the concept of confidentiality of surveys, and might have more confidence that their answers will be held confidential.

Because less educated people are more likely (I think) to have had interactions with the police, they would have less trust of any sort of authority figure, such as survey takers.

Less educated people include illiterate people, who cannot really respond, as well as mentally disturbed and challenged people at higher rates than educated groups, all of which might lack the capacity to meaningfully answer a survey.

For a variety of reasons, I think that the less educated would opt not to take the survey at all at a higher rate....too busy trying to survive with no time, not activist minded in the way that colleges promote, less access to a caring, supportive system that allows one to think about what happened, and I'd guess having to live in an environment that stigmatizes the victim as the one "at fault" more than the environment of better educated people--making one much more likely to simply "bury" the issue.

All that having been said, one has to start somewhere, and as you state, there is a sad lack of good data. Highlighting that is very important.

Callie, outstanding work getting this in the Times, which amazes me. It seems that the mainstream media rarely puts such fact-based informative articles in the Op/Ed pages. Good work getting it in, and I'm sure it will raise the profile of these crimes among some.
John M

climber
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:47am PT
Perhaps its possible to create a control group. Ask for survey participants of close female friends.

Give one survey to one friend, give another survey to the other friend.

ask the first your questions about rape.

Ask the other questions about their friend. Has their friend been raped or abused type questions.

Don't tell them beforehand that they are taking different surveys.

I don't' know if that would even work, because I know that friends lie for each other. But if the questions were well thought out, it might be a way to tease some information out.
John M

climber
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:50am PT
I wonder how many people lie on surveys. I lie when I'm annoyed by telephone surveys.

Crimpie.. congrats by the way. You shine girl.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:52am PT
And it seems that testing for it is impossible since we'd have to rely on what they say.

I'm not familiar with the survey tool that you used in this comparison, but I'd think there would be very considerable differences between a written survey, and how entry into it was accomplished, and

A face-to-face survey, and

a face-to-face with a woman survey taker, and

a face-to-face with a woman survey taker trained in rape counseling or other professionals used to dealing with the scenario.

Hard to do, though. Probably very expensive.

How do you get them in the room? You might be able to track non-participation?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:54am PT
I'm curious about citizenship status and reporting, the Dreamer group of females in particular.

I'd think anytime you have a group that is in an inferior position of power, there is going to be a certain amount of exploitation.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:59am PT
I can offer some insight on these great points based on the National Crime Victimization Survey which is the one I use primary in my work.

Non-response across groups is monitored (but obviously not on every possible characteristic. Weighting the data - which is a must - takes care of that to the degree possible.

Illiteracy can be an issue, as can language issues. At least with the NCVS, the respondent never ever sees the survey. It's a beast - talk about scaring off respondents! The survey is administered by trained field representatives so illiteracy doesn't affect this one.

The survey is administered in many languages so people who speak say Chinese or Spanish get the survey in their preferred language.

Citizenship is a missing variable (sadly) but one that is being added. I do a lot of research focused on Hispanic victimization and their interaction with (i.e., reporting to) the Police. I think it's a key variable and one I'm happy will be included shortly.

The survey is conducted in this way (briefly). It is a household survey. All persons age 12+ in the household are surveyed. We return to the household every six months. Only after the initial survey can the survey be conducted by phone - it is up to the respondent. If they can't be reached by phone, the field rep returns to the home. The survey has really high response rates which is awesome. It hovers around the 90% (differs a little based on whether one is speaking of the household response rate vs. the person response rate).

As far as a control group or asking friends - that would be fun and heinously (and prohibitively) expensive. There is an entire body of research that looks at measuring rape/sexual assault. It's not so easy or straightforward. And if someone has never ever revealed a victimization to anyone, their friend wouldn't know anyway. Those who never reveal exist for sure. There is some research where the research measured someone as having been assaulted, but the respondent says they weren't - and vice versa. It's pretty fascinating and complex stuff.

edit: For those interested in the methodology of the survey, read more here: http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245.

It's a pretty cool survey and much methodology research came from this survey. It was the first victimization survey and has served as the model for those implemented throughout the world. I doubt any other (or few other) surveys have been scrutinized to the degree it has and that is good news. I love methodological research!
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