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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Sep 29, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
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Okay, whatever Mike. "Masters." Ugh².
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Sep 29, 2015 - 08:06pm PT
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It’s been suggested by some Masters is that Reality IS consciousness discovering itself.
Well, sure.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 30, 2015 - 09:06am PT
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Cintune: "Masters." Ugh².
What? You’d rather they have Ph.D.s? Nobel prizes? Stipends? Followers? Adherents? Published papers?
One more time, how would you suggest validating wisdom? What would be your criteria? Consensus? That which is deemed “productive” or “useful?”
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Sep 30, 2015 - 12:31pm PT
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Cintune: "Masters." Ugh².
If you don't don't know the system that "masters" have to go through to be designated as a master I can understand your "Ugh"
Meditators are alot like climbers in that you have to do a lot of climbing/meditation to really get it. Dirtbags do alot of climbing. So think of Masters as the dirtbags of meditation that are willing to share their experience so you can try it out. "masters" have typically done many 30 plus even 100 day plus meditation retreats and mentored with other masters for 10 plus years before they are designated to teach. even then they are typically on probation as a teacher for the 3 to 5 years before they are designated a master.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 30, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
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Hey, Cintune, those were real questions.
What is wisdom? How would one validate it?
Be well.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Sep 30, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
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Wisdom? A nebulous concept. Validated by consensus, or sometimes imposed through intimidation.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 30, 2015 - 10:48pm PT
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How come most of us don't know what would make us happy? I don't think animals have those dilemmas.
Your speaking for yourself and yours, I guess?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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What you see is what you are.
Look at any passion or obsession, for example. This can be difficult at first because both are so engrossing. With practice, you get glimpses of what they are, more and more with time. Passions or obsessions seem to come in two parts. One part is interpretation or the content of the passion or obsession. That’s what you think IS the passion or the obsession. But there is a second part if you pay close attention. The second part is pure emotion accompanying the interpretation—raw energy. If you can see these two parts, you can look at the interpretation and simply see it as an interpretation alone: “X is wrong”; “Y is bad”; “Z is terrific” “A is a B.” If you have had some practice at looking at thoughts *as* thoughts alone (this is where meditation might come in), you can see that thoughts just come and go, that they don’t really reside anywhere you can put your finger on. Thoughts are evanescent. So, you just see thoughts just as content. When you see them so, thoughts have a tendency (with practice) to fall away or disappear (ok, maybe only temporarily).
Well, then what? Well, then you can ride the energy, the emotion, like you would ride a wave in the ocean (without the interpretation). You can surf your feelings.
Look at your feelings. Even the so-called bad or ugly ones. If you can drop the interpretations, you can see that all emotions are remarkable, amazing energy flows. You can also note why you fall into and stay in them as you do or as you want to. When you get angry or sad or experience sexual feelings (let’s say), you find yourself wanting to stay in them. Why? Getting plugged-into those energies *is* life at its fullest, whether you are topping out on El-cap, seeing a child born, or getting into one of those horrible fights with people you love. Looking even more closely, you might come to see that all of life is simply energy flows, that there’s nothing but energy flows. Everything is an energy flow, and you can see that, and experience it. That is experience; that is what you are.
Mind is a placeholder for "experience."
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Why is it that failed academic philosophers seem to go disproportionately into computer programming?
Is this true?
All failed academic philosophers or analytic philosophers?
Even at my age I keep learning things on this forum!
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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I have done quite a bit of mathematical programming in BASIC, avoiding high level laguages like Mathematica in order to be able to create and design at a relatively fundamental level. It's hard for me to imagine that "failures" end up "programming." I find the process intellectually challenging and rewarding. Perhaps when comments like this are made they refer to what used to be called "coders" or other workers operating at at more mechanical level.
As readers may recall, John Nash pulled himself out of schizophrenia by programming for colleagues at the Institute for Advanced Studies. Oh wait . . . maybe analytical philosophers are schizophrenic!
;>)
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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It would be interesting to hear what a professional philosopher has to say about these comments. However, if many suffer from Asperger's that is unlikely. I seem to recall sycorax's father was an academic philosopher, so she might have an opinion.
Mathematicians who fail to get a tenure appointment might go into programming at a high rate, but that might be expected. On the other hand failed physicists have done remarkable things for stock trading.
;>)
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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I’ve been looking at my passions and obsessions recently. Once I’ve notice one in my sittings (they happen all the f*cking time!), I disentangle the interpretations from the energy flows, and I think I see that every energy flow has its own flavor. The energy flow of determination tastes different than anger, or exacerbation, as does frustration, as incredulity, and of course as does sexual energy--from joy, love, care, compassion, surprise, sadness, etc. As many as I witness. How can that be?
For a few moments, I surf those feelings. It is like riding a wave. I am propelled, I feel the energy around me, in my hair so to speak, it is pure exhilaration. I seem to be a matrix of feelings / energies at all times. Some are more prominent than others perhaps because I am paying attention to them. I’ve highlighted them.
My entire life is a meditation. Even the meditation, itself.
I’m some sort of like an onion. I may smell that way, but I taste good when sautéed.
Be well.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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I’m some sort of like an onion. I may smell that way, but I taste good when sautéed (MikeL)
That's what happens when you toss yourself into the What is Mind skillet!
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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^^^^^^^
Ha-ha. Next comes jumping from the skillet into the fire.
Sitting creates a controlled environment where one can perform experiments. It’s a laboratory for the mind. Somewhat like laboratory experiments, a meditator or contemplator should to be systematic, observant, and circumspect. Most of the experiments have already been designed by someone or another a long time ago, so one can replicate them and see what shows up. (It’s never exactly as one read or imagined, but then what is?)
Repeating the same experiment in sitting over and over does not exactly produce the same results or the same effects. “Noticing” is an increasingly nuanced, multileveled experience. It’s sort of like looking at a picture in an art gallery or reading a novel or watching a film over and over. One sees more because one sees more. (Bootstrapping, I guess.) It’s not like there is just one thing to see or understand. It seems to be a never-ending discovery process from what would seem like the exact same experimental set-up.
It’s the instrument of the experiments that changes or evolves.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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(Glub glub.)
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WBraun
climber
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In the gun thread thy couldn't control their minds.
Ships without rudders and no true north.
Thus they deleted the thread.
Stoopid gross materialists have no clue WTF they really are doing ......
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Sorry to hear that, Werner. “Guns” would seem to be a topic worth exploring and talking about.
I appreciate how people can demand rights. Rights seems to be a sign of evolution. But, having rights and exercising them to prove that you have them seems a little childish somehow. I see that kind of thing on the road / freeway all the time: “I can drive in any lane I want and can go as fast or as slow as I want. It’s my right.”
Some common curtesies and civilities could balance out “rights” in my opinion.
We take our beliefs too seriously.
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WBraun
climber
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The gross materialists always create artificial security due to being clueless of the real source of security.
Thus they manipulate the material energies and create stoopid weapons full of stoopid karmic reactions.
They have no clue how to create intelligent weapons free from karma because they are so ultimately clueless due to their lock stock bodily consciousness.
The stoopid fools think that killing will eliminate.
The idiots have no clue how these thing come back in another incarnation as Karmic reactions.
The laws of physics is non other then simple karma.
These stoopid clueless materialistic fools creating more and more stoopid cluelessness ....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^
These stoopid clueless materialistic fools creating more and more stoopid cluelessness ....
Who knew the Duck could see into the future 🐣
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Mike L said "Sitting creates a controlled environment where one can perform experiments. It’s a laboratory for the mind. Somewhat like laboratory experiments, a meditator or contemplator should to be systematic, observant, and circumspect. Most of the experiments have already been designed by someone or another a long time ago, so one can replicate them and see what shows up. (It’s never exactly as one read or imagined, but then what is?)
Repeating the same experiment in sitting over and over does not exactly produce the same results or the same effects. “Noticing” is an increasingly nuanced, multileveled experience. It’s sort of like looking at a picture in an art gallery or reading a novel or watching a film over and over. One sees more because one sees more. (Bootstrapping, I guess.) It’s not like there is just one thing to see or understand. It seems to be a never-ending discovery process from what would seem like the exact same experimental set-up.
It’s the instrument of the experiments that changes or evolves. "
+1 Mike L ; this is almost exactly how I approach sitting/meditation.
Also one of the great things about meditation you can do when you get old and it is completely accessible and it is free. I think most people don't try it because they just don't see what it could possibly offer them. I think generally it is looked at as an obscure practice to sit very still and experience things as they are for 30 minutes.
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