Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 10:58am PT
|
Donini, Mimi came clean as one of the cable layers in the other thread. She evidentally was one of those who "laid down" the law to WOS FA's. I believe it was in the shape of the Mark of Zorro.
|
|
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 12:41pm PT
|
It's weird that people who have devoted so much of their life to climbing don't seem to get it.
The rock is an inanimate object. I love El Cap, Half Dome, etc. but we don't protect "the rock" to save the rock, we protect it for our fellow ciimbers. The rock doesn't care if it has 'too many' holes, or gets chipped. It's going to be there for millios of years regardless. It's really about conserving the challenge that nature presented us for our fellow climbers. It's about respect for other people.
Pretty much nobody is "pure". Did Grossman back off his climbs if they required a bolt or a pin? Someone could have come along in the future and possibly free climbed that section. The game/challenge is to climb as pure as possible. Unless you pick a line that shows no signs of passage at all you are not fully pure. And unless you back down off a route that requires any modification of the rock from pounding pins, heads, or bolts, you are NOT pure.
Ethics and style collide in the FA. When a party does an FA they use up a small amount of the limited number of lines available, so they should do it in reasonable style (of course that's where there is plenty of room for debate, see Growing Up). For WoS there wasn't and hasn't been a whole lot of of people lined up to do that climb. Perhaps no one who have attempted that slab but them, so did they really take away the opportunity for some one else to do it in a better style? And from all reports, and we'll hopefully have even more info from Ammon and Kait it sounds like they did it in fine/bold style. How much crap they took, how much time they took, the fact that they wrote a book, the way the defend their actions, their prior experience, is really their choice, it doesn't effect anyone's climbing experince but their own.
So of course a lot of the detraction is from territorial claims. Emotionally driven. Dogs pissing on trees. The fact that someone could defend someone taking a crap on someone's ropes and still to this day say it was the right thing to do and the one who accepted responsibility for that heinous act betrayed the cause just goes to show how little respect some are willing to give and hence how little they should receive.
|
|
Bababata
Mountain climber
Utopia
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 12:53pm PT
|
What the Fet wrote. Couldn't have said it better.
|
|
Bubba Ho-Tep
climber
Evergreen, CO
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 12:53pm PT
|
^^^ That's just plain wrong. ^^^
But it is kind of the mark of Zorro, isn't it?
|
|
Bubba Ho-Tep
climber
Evergreen, CO
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
|
Mimi,
Now I'm really confused.
In the posts you copied above, Calder mentions "rusty bat heads were frustrating" and "some god awful rusted bat heads.
How did you turn that into this:
Bubba, yes, the reports have changed over time. Since they re-emerged on climbing forums to reinvent themselves, they first held the position that every time the drill touched rock it was filled with metal, then a ladder of bathooks came to light, then a ladder of batheads came to light, and then the issue of 145 narrow Leeper Logan hooks and how those were made to work came up.
I mean, really.
How did "some god awful rusted bat heads" turn into "a ladder of batheads?"
Interestingly, a few posts down the page from the Calder post is this, written by madbolter1:
"The batheads were a lame experiment, which we readily admit and quickly abandoned, and there are only a few of them."
So Calder says "some" and MB1 says "a few" and you say a "ladder."
My definition of "some" or "a few" is just that - some, or a few. To me a ladder conjures up images of "a lot" - as in something that you couldn't miss and would have been mentioned rather than dismissed as "some."
Last, you say that a ladder of bathooks came to light. On the original Reid topo, which outdates any of these lame threads, there is clearly a ladder of bathooks connecting to the Aquarian - and they are labeled as "bathooks", nothing else.
Right here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=963934&msg=1018145#msg1018145
Does your assertion above mean that there is a second ladder that was left off the topo?
|
|
Caz
Big Wall climber
Long Beach, CA.
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 09:24pm PT
|
More drama please. I'm not done with work yet...
|
|
Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 09:28pm PT
|
Way better than Erica Cain, anyway.
|
|
Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 09:39pm PT
|
Anyone who has desecrated the Big Stone with any sort of hammered placement should be shot and killed immediately
|
|
Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 09:40pm PT
|
Uh oh.
Now we're ALL gonna Die!!!6!!
|
|
fosburg
climber
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 10:08pm PT
|
I think you are absolutely right and to the point Perry, there is no pure aid climbing standard and that fact is at the basis of all this "disagreement". The detractors of WOS are mostly nailers themselves and thus guilty of rock alteration. Who makes the rules?
|
|
mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 10:18pm PT
|
"The name of big-walling--invent your own rules/ethics and legends and see how many of the m-asses will kiss your azz and follow them."--mojede
|
|
rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 10:34pm PT
|
fet wrote:
"Pretty much nobody is "pure". Did Grossman back off his climbs if they required a bolt or a pin?"
you are unfamiliar with steve's efforts.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 11:08pm PT
|
I believe what Steve and Mimi's arguments are really based on is if most of the hook moves were "doctored" with a drill bit or scraped then the so called line was "forced" since there are also a high number of aid holes (bolts & rivets) for the amount of pitches.
This would be the "root" of their argument, (The line was "Forced").
They also most likely believe that the FA party was not truthful in revealing how much was doctored.
Just my wild guess so don't be going ape sh'it on me ......
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 11:38pm PT
|
"Pretty much nobody is "pure". Did Grossman back off his climbs if they required a bolt or a pin?"
you are unfamiliar with steve's efforts.
great for Steve but I see no reason for everyone to climb like Steve nor should first ascents be limited to the fewest elite who can do the route in the very highest style.
In that case, almost all El cap routes would have run-out 5.13 before you even got to the aid
Peace
Karl
|
|
#1SuperMama
Social climber
Oakdale, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 11:53pm PT
|
Hey all!
Ammon and Kait are 30 feet shy of being done with pitch 8.
That's the scoop for tonight!
I think??? they said Pitch 9 looks okay.
Mama Annie
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2011 - 11:56pm PT
|
Man, I wish you were my mom! The first my mom knew about my climbing was
the bill she got for the chopper rescue.
|
|
ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2011 - 12:17am PT
|
Just my wild guess so don't be going ape sh'it on me ......
Hey Werner!
Peace
Edit: Thanks "Mamma" fer the reports! Hope you get thru this without too much stress! Enjoy the ascent.
Peace
|
|
Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2011 - 12:19am PT
|
This thread is the gift that keeps on giving!
|
|
#1SuperMama
Social climber
Oakdale, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2011 - 12:22am PT
|
And the Murphy-nator is not enhanced!!!
All Barber doggies look like this - they smile! Kinda' weird but not.
Everyone wants to come back as a Barber pup. It's a great life!
|
|
#1SuperMama
Social climber
Oakdale, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2011 - 12:42am PT
|
You're welcome!
Keeps me closer to my two knuckleheads!
And I love watching my kids climb - always have!
It's quite fun!
Plus, you al make me LOL with your rants and raves.
Keep up the good work!
P.S. Pete - where'd you go to? This thread is missing your expertise!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!