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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 16, 2015 - 08:49am PT
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Yes it was outrageous. He was catering to his right wing, bible thumping constituency. He did exactly what Rick said he wouldn't do.
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 16, 2015 - 08:52am PT
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And Edward, Kim Davis is as free as she ever was to hate gays. God bless America! She just can't use her official post to act illegally.
But huck thinks she should be able to use her government post to promote her theocratic views.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 16, 2015 - 09:02am PT
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Not that Huck has a chance, and therefore a defense of him is misplaced, but you guys are confusing appealing to the candidates base constituency with governance style and substance. Look at Huck's terms as governor for indication of job performance.
I understand the confusion of you guys however. You're confusing Obama's fundamentalist ideology and strict adherence to said ideology in all aspects of his governance as the norm. It is not.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Dec 16, 2015 - 09:25am PT
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If his "fundamentalist ideology" helped put the $2.09/gal. gas in my tank this morning, shoot, I'm all for it. More! Hell, Gingrich only promised $2.50/gal.
Don't drill, baby, don't drill.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 16, 2015 - 10:37am PT
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Dam.... I watched the whole thing.... It was like watching supertopo.
Now that's a low blow to SuperTopo. For the last many election cycles, I've found the "debates" a monumental waste of time at best, and deceptive at worst. All that matters is TV style. There's neither time nor interest in substance.
If all I did was watch debates, I'd think Carly Fiorina would make a good president. How much more damning can I be than that?
John
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 16, 2015 - 10:40am PT
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On plus side, Christie said he would shoot down Russian planes violating a no-fly zone over a foreign country. I feel safer already.
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John M
climber
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Dec 16, 2015 - 10:48am PT
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I agree that 30 second sound bytes don't allow for much substance. I watch the debates to see how they carry themselves. I agree also that if I only watched debates, then Fiorina would be higher then she is, but I don't only watch debates.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 16, 2015 - 11:08am PT
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I must say, I've enjoyed the much more reasoned discussion of the last couple of pages.
Not that Huck has a chance, and therefore a defense of him is misplaced, but you guys are confusing appealing to the candidates base constituency with governance style and substance. Look at Huck's terms as governor for indication of job performance.
This is a very dangerous assumption. The perfect example is GW Bush. He was, by most accounts, a good and moderate governor, who reached across the isle and did many things in a bipartisan way. He was thought well of by state democrats.
But we know what happened.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 16, 2015 - 11:12am PT
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I find solace that the oath of office for officers in the us military has no requirement to obey orders, only to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.
These looneys might keep that in mind.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 16, 2015 - 11:13am PT
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Quite the opposite, Ken. Implicit in my criticism is my observation that this agreement means nothing. The League of Nations had more substance. I resent the window dressing being played off as substance.
John
Spoken like a lawyer. So what you are saying, is that because there is no enforceable contract (how exactly does one do that in this circumstance?), the leaders of various countries word is meaningless?
Has it been meaningless for the US? I think one can point to many things that the US is trying to do to alter the curve. Plus, there is additional fallout.....California has met the Kyoto Treaty thresholds.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 16, 2015 - 11:18am PT
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This is a very dangerous assumption. The perfect example is GW Bush. He was, by most accounts, a good and moderate governor, who reached across the isle and did many things in a bipartisan way. He was thought well of by state democrats.
But we know what happened.
I'd be curious on your take of what happened. My own is that in the first two years of his presidency, he acted in a largely bipartisan manner. He made a point of including Democrats whenever he praised governmental action that went right. Then, in the midterm elections, the Republicans gained seats, which is unusual. The party holding the White House usually loses seats in the midterms. This caused the Democrats to replace their leadership with Reid and Pelosi, whose mission was to sabotage G.W. at every turn, which they proceeded to do.
The Republicans have responded in kind; oddly, led by back benchers rather than their more moderate congressional leaders. They already claimed one victim in Boehner. Already, the Heritage Foundation wages a hate campaign against McConnell and Ryan because they have the temerity to negotiate with the Democrats. Meanwhile, the Democrats' top two presidential candidates say the nation's biggest enemies are the Republicans.
I believe it was Madison, in The Federalist No. 10 who spoke of the danger from the "violence of faction." While the political rhetoric of the late 18th and early 19th centuries had far more vitriol than today, Madison's warning seems more apt in the 21st century.
John
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Dec 16, 2015 - 11:28am PT
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Let's see...first Black president sworn in 2009. Tea Party movement begins a few months later. Their God, Rush Limbaugh, says on Inauguration Day and every day thereafter, "I hope he fails". Marching orders delivered and received. Cooperation is now the 3rd rail.
They live under the myth that they lost in '12 by being too moderate. They are in for a rude awakening.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 16, 2015 - 11:44am PT
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Has it been meaningless for the US? ".......
California has met the Kyoto Treaty thresholds.
California is the number 2 state in the union in CO2 emmisions, behind only Texas.
Per capita looks great, at 9.18 metric tons per capita, which is half the national average, until you match it against other countries.
The California average is 1.5 times the country we love to vilify as carbon polluters, China.
If Californians halved their per capita emissions, they would match Argentina. Halve it again for Uruguay.
And I don't see where California does better than any EU countries except Luxembourg.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 16, 2015 - 11:59am PT
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I'd be curious on your take of what happened. My own is that in the first two years of his presidency, he acted in a largely bipartisan manner. He made a point of including Democrats whenever he praised governmental action that went right. Then, in the midterm elections, the Republicans gained seats, which is unusual. The party holding the White House usually loses seats in the midterms. This caused the Democrats to replace their leadership with Reid and Pelosi, whose mission was to sabotage G.W. at every turn, which they proceeded to do.
I would summarize what happened in two words: Karl Rove. As I understand it, Rove was the first purely political operative who was assigned a office close to the President in the West Wing. I think I also have to bow to Cheney, who I think had extraordinary influence over Bush, and had a "take over the world" agenda. I think these two, (and others) changed Bush's direction of thought.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 16, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
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California is the number 2 state in the union in CO2 emmisions, behind only Texas.
Per capita looks great, at 9.18 metric tons per capita, which is half the national average, until you match it against other countries.
The California average is 1.5 times the country we love to vilify as carbon polluters, China.
Of course, Cal is #2, it is the most populous state.
California is part of a first world nation, China is not. what everyone worries about is what happens as China modernizes?
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John M
climber
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Dec 16, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
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This caused the Democrats to replace their leadership with Reid and Pelosi, whose mission was to sabotage G.W. at every turn, which they proceeded to do.
interesting take..
Mine is that they tried to slow down the rush to war, but ultimately went along. What have the republicans gone along with under Obama? Plus, tried to slow the roll on the patriot act, but also ultimately went along. Then Bush became manic with his "you are either for us or against us" speech.
Hopefully others will express their take.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 16, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
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California is part of a first world nation, China is not. what everyone worries about is what happens as China modernizes?
Last I checked, the U.K., France, Germany, and the rest of the EU are first World Nations. Several have higher standards of living than CA.
As China modernizes, it's doing better than California did as it "modernized".
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 16, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
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DMT makes a good point about the difficulty in comparing standards of living. The comparison depends on what you desire. If one compares housing, for example, Californians -- particularly those who live inland -- are on a rarefied plain, compared with Germany, Austria, or most of the rest of Europe.
In a way, it reminds me of trying to rate various cities for quality of life. Do bowling alleys per capita matter as much as softball diamonds per capita, for example? Do you want easy access to ice fishing several months of the year?
We can compare income per capita (usually by comparing per capita GDP), but that doesn't really tell us all about what we have. It reminds me of a job offer I received from a Wall Street law firm when I was in law school. The hiring partner, in answer to my question about why New York salaries were so much greater than those in L.A. at the time, said, in effect, "You need to understand that you will have a high income, but that largely means that you will also have a heavy tax bill and big living expenses." Considering that he spent about three hours daily in his car, on the bus, on the train, and on the subway, commuting between his home in Connecticut and his office on Wall Street, it was easy to see what he meant.
John
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