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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 29, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
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Yeah, well, invading countries on a pre-emptive premise & no direct evidence of aggression is against the law, too...and you guys didn't have any trouble making that happen, did you?
Do you not see the hypocrisy of the position of your Party on HR? The ACA was a good idea when your POTUS candidate created it, and now it's a bad idea because the Democrat POTUS implemented it.
You have me mixed up with somebody else. The Rebumblecrats are not "my party." And I have been very opposed to these wars of aggression going back decades! They ARE against the law, and this lame "war on terror" has further established an imperial presidency that is itself flying in the face of the Constitution.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 29, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
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Again, the necessary correction.... What state and local entities agree to do that you call "socialism" is contemplated by the Constitution. When the feds do similar things, particularly redistribution of the fruits of individual labor to other individuals, that is indeed socialism in the worst sense.
Fortunately the courts disagree with you--federal income taxes being one excellent example.
Curt
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 29, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
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Fortunately the courts disagree with you--federal income taxes being one excellent example.
I don't oppose federal income taxes. I oppose a portion of those taxes being used for non-Constitutionally-approved purposes: wealth redistribution. And the fact that the courts have allowed it doesn't make it right.
You conflate legality with morality. Our nation's principles were supposed to have legality map onto morality. When they come apart, morality still trumps legality (we have countless examples, such as slavery). And patriots recognizing morality, when the two come apart, is the basis of legitimate revolution.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 29, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
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Still waiting...
Show me one Republican politician that has a serious, feasible alternative with which to replace the ACA.
Just one.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 29, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
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Apogee writes:
"Yeah, well, invading countries on a pre-emptive premise & no direct evidence of aggression is against the law, too..."
What law is that?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 29, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
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Oh, yay....the 'devil's advocate for the sole purpose of being a devil's advocate' has returned...truly productive dialogue should ensue from this point forward...
Edit: How about you answer the above question, Chaz?
An actual answer is required, though...answering a question with another question is not answering the question...
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 29, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
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I don't oppose federal income taxes. I oppose a portion of those taxes being used for non-Constitutionally-approved purposes: wealth redistribution.
Our income tax system has always been progressive and redistributive by its very nature, so that's a bit of a contradiction.
Curt
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 29, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
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I love this.
An ACA hater rants on and on about how we are all doomed by the impending ACA, and how critically important that it be replaced immediately by something better...even a single payer system.
When asked to give a single example of a Republican politician (hell, any politician would do) with a feasible, functional alternative....
They disappear.
How do you Haters expect to be taken seriously when you can't support your argument with anything?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 29, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
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Sigh... you've beaten me into submission.
I think it was the "morality is malleable" line that did me in.
Okay, have fun with yourselves. You "win."
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Nov 29, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
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Still waiting...
Show me one Republican politician that has a serious, feasible alternative with which to replace the ACA.
Just one.
Mitt Romney, and his very accepted now success in mandating universal healthcare in Mass.
he fought for it, championed it, bragged about it, and yes even endorsed it as good for the entire United States
how a Republican could ever ever vote for Mitt Romney is beyond belief
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 29, 2013 - 03:39pm PT
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"Sigh... you've beaten me into submission."
I thought you had so much more potential, madbolter1. Sigh.
Nope...you're just a loud whiner with no solutions. Just like a petulant child.
Prove me wrong, and back up your oft-repeated assertion with any kind of evidence that there is a genuine interest amongst any Republican to replace the ACA (aka ObamaRomneyCare) with anything.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 29, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
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Prove me wrong, and back up your oft-repeated assertion with any kind of evidence that there is a genuine interest amongst any Republican to replace the ACA (aka ObamaRomneyCare) with anything.
Why should I take up this challenge. I'm not a Rebumblecan. They are a bunch of clueless idiots, which I've said many times on many threads.
Again, you have me mixed up with somebody else.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 29, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
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Sigh... you've beaten me into submission.
I think it was the "morality is malleable" line that did me in.
Perhaps "subject to interpretation" is a better way to put it. To individuals or groups of like-minded individuals, morality isn't malleable at all.
Curt
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 29, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
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"Why should I take up this challenge. "
It's not a 'challenge', madbolter.
You have said several times that the ACA should be replaced immediately with some other plan, even a SP system.
I asked you to give a single example of a Republican politician who has floated any kind of alternative...hell, you could even float your own idea...
That's a 'challenge'? Should be a slam-dunk, if you aren't simply ranting out of your arse.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 29, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
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Definition so socialism.
But it is upon the law that socialism itself relies. Socialists desire to practice legal plunder, not illegal plunder. Socialists, like all other monopolists, desire to make the law their own weapon. And when once the law is on the side of socialism, how can it be used against socialism? For when plunder is abetted by the law, it does not fear your courts, your gendarmes, and your prisons. Rather, it may call upon them for help.
This question of legal plunder must be settled once and for all, and there are only three ways to settle it:
The few plunder the many.
Everybody plunders everybody.
Nobody plunders anybody.
We must make our choice among limited plunder, universal plunder, and no plunder. The law can follow only one of these three.
Limited legal plunder: This system prevailed when the right to vote was restricted. One would turn back to this system to prevent the invasion of socialism.
Universal legal plunder: We have been threatened with this system since the franchise was made universal. The newly enfranchised majority has decided to formulate law on the same principle of legal plunder that was used by their predecessors when the vote was limited.
No legal plunder: This is the principle of justice, peace, order, stability, harmony, and logic. Until the day of my death, I shall proclaim this principle with all the force of my lungs (which alas! is all too inadequate). [2]
Fredrich Bastiat.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 29, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
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Speaking of ranting petulant children spraying yellow custard outta their arse...
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 29, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
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Fredrich Bastiat
Congratulations for citing a Frenchman as delusional as Ayn Rand.
Curt
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Nov 29, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
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You know...according that HealthCare Sherpa site, a person my age, living in my zip code, who wants the Platinum coverage(90% of expenses get covered)...
Making 500K per year can get insurance for $439.90 - $693.53
Making 250K per year can get insurance for $439.90 - $693.53
Making 125K per year can get insurance for $439.90 - $693.53
Making 50K per year can get insurance for $439.90 - $693.53
Making 35K per year can get insurance for $261.04 - $514.67, and may qualify for subsidies
Making 25K per year can get insurance for $128.03 - $381.66,, and may qualify for subsidies
Questions to those of you fa-reaking out about high rates....
1) How do these numbers compare to what you are being quoted? If your situation has more than one person, as this is based on - why not go enter the numbers, and let us know how they compare to what you have been told your "new insurance" premium is.
2) For those of you upset over having to "pay for" the poor people.... Something tells me most of you are making more than the 50K, which is where the cost per premium seems to top out. If you think you are being gouged simply for making more money than those living in poverty - how come those making a half million a year(and more) aren't being asked to cover one more penny than the one at $50K?
You know - several years ago I looked into insurance and it was like $300 a month for the lowest quote I could find. No offense intended, but if I was "back in the game" working in NYC, and making 6 figures, I would be EMBARRASSED to be complaining about paying the above premiums.
One final question - Have employers all decided to completely STOP providing health insurance? When I worked for others, all of those places provided insurance. I would assume that if I was working for someone who paid my insurance before the Affordable Healthcare Ac starts, that they would either continue to pay it, or adjust my salary to make up for the benefit removed. What's going on with people who have their work cover insurance?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 29, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
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It was going away next October, but El Presidente has decided to extend the small business exemption for a year so it won't effect anyone before the midterms.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Nov 29, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
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It's not a 'challenge', madbolter.
You have said several times that the ACA should be replaced immediately with some other plan, even a SP system.
yes Madbolter, I too would like to read about your own plan to replace the ACA?
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