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TREED
Trad climber
Gunks
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Who left the pigpen open?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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While you're at it Riley, look up Thomas Sowell.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Riley, I agree with you, but calling evertone who disagrees with you an a-hole doesn't work.
Trust me, I've tried.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Whatever, don't foret to breathe.
I mean this in the best way, breathe!
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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uh.... i think it's the other way around. though he does know your name....
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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this is a classic case of a class/caste system of thinking...
Upper Middle Class Judge's son...thinks, and believes he is better than and entitled to rule over people who are beneath him in his own messed up hierarchy...
this has been socialized in this person for a long period of time because of who his father is...it appears they have much more power than they actually do...
Zimmerman makes a leap lots of people who have this upbringing don't...he takes ACTION against someone who is not in his sphere of influence believing he has a greater power/responsibility/sphere of influence than he really does...
He BELIEVES he is right and that he won't suffer consequences...he thinks when the cops arrive after he has successfully apprehended Trayvon he will be treated as if he is part of the crime fighting team...not as a vigilante...
WHY??? most likely it is because lessor incidents have turned out this way in his past experience...
This time he encountered someone willing to stand up and DEFEND themselves...Trayvon thought he was being FOLLOWED/STALKED by a CREEPY, CRAZY ASS CRACKER...I think that demonstrates some FEAR on TRAYVON'S part forcing him to take action to defend himself against a percieved threat...
unfortunately it resulted in his DEATH
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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can't argue with you there Riley...Zimmerman is a POS, loser, coward...
he is also a KILLER
I have never liked guns I think Skynard say's it best with "saturday night special"---why don't we just throw them all to the bottom of the sea before someone shoots you or me...
seems like a good solution to me but I have made many poor decisions also but nobody has died from my choices...
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
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I would take it then, that after Z-man gets acquitted there will be very few ST'ers who'll be inviting him over to Thanksgiving dinner.
But, just in case, start the meal with wine, cheese and crazy-ass-crackers.
Not sayin' these are some of Z-man's aspiring cop buddies, not sayin' they aren't either.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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So, TGT, Martin didn't have the right to defend himself, but Zimmerman does?
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abrams
Sport climber
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Gary
Those with the familiar job of following suspicious types like you around inside stores to prevent shoplifting would shoot you dead also if you jumped them, rode them to the floor, straddled them, and with fist flying went MMA on their face while saying YOU GOING TO DIE TONIGHT.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Took Friday off to go climbing so didn't really follow that day's testimony.
Sounds like there was some comic relief with the medical examiner (who barely spoke understandable English) testifying that he had zero recollection of the autopsy and generally acting like a jackass.
Today's got interesting stuff going on so far.
The testimony about Trayvon's dad saying that it was not Trayvon screaming on the 911 call is going to be real, real tough for the prosecution to get around.
Seems to me that if the jury thinks that it could have been Zimmerman yelling to the world to help before the gunshot was fired, not guilty is only reasonable verdict, even as to manslaughter.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Gary writes:
"So, TGT, Martin didn't have the right to defend himself, but Zimmerman does?"
If Martin was on top of Zimmermann - and continuing to beat on him - then what Martin was doing went way beyond self defense.
You can't beat someone who's down. I don't know about Florida, but doing that in California is a felony. And as noted earlier, you absolutely have the right to use deadly force to stop a violent felony in progress.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
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It's interesting to view the timeline of the phone calls and/or tapes.
One question I have is why didn't Z-man tell T-man he was armed and to back off or he would shoot?
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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If Martin was on top of Zimmermann - and continuing to beat on him - then what Martin was doing went way beyond self defense.
Zimmerman's contusions on the back of his head are from a single blow on the concrete. And Martin clearly didn't "self defend" himself enough, because he ended up dead.
Martin shouldn't of picked a fight. Should of just went home.
Zimmerman should have listened to the police. Charge him.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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One question I have is why didn't Z-man tell T-man he was armed and to back off or he would shoot?
I don't think all of Zimm's conduct can be completely explained (or at least explained in a way that does him any credit).
But as to your question, it seems there was a very short conversation between the two before it got physical--just may not have been enough time for Zimm to have done that.
It's sort of like this (I'm paraphrasing and going by memory, so don't bust my balls if I'm off on a detail, although I think this is basically accurate):
Trayvon: Why are you following me?
Zimm: What are you doing here?
Next thing you know, Trayvon sucker punches Zimm and knocks him down, does some MMA-style ground and pound, Zimm is yelling for help, no one comes to help, and the rest is history.
Do I know the above is what happened? Of course not, but it's plausible, consistent with the evidence presented, and I don't see how the state can disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Edit, breaking news:
Martin's toxicology report admissible
This one could be over folks!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Anyway ...
This one is a toss up now ..
Not sure how the jury will see it now
Yeah I thought about bringing up the even money bet (no odds), but let's let that lie and we'll just see how it turns out.
A right wing radio pundit I was listening to observed that the best part of the prosecution's case was the opening statement, and it's been basically all downhill since then; the opposite for the defense (remember the knock knock joke?).
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J man
Trad climber
morgan hill
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Gang banger Trayvon bone head fool got quick justice. It is all over but the shouting.
Move on to next conundrum you racist liberal morons that we all feel sorry for due to your lack of brain power.
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J man
Trad climber
morgan hill
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shut up you fool, we know you all the same person = norton rsin apogee riley blahblah Dr F mountinglion kittens. Have you no heart for justice?
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dirtbag
climber
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^^^^^^ Christ, what an idiot...^^^^
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