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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 12, 2016 - 08:00pm PT
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"Oh, Frankenstein, be not equitable to every other and trample upon me alone, to whom thy justice, and even thy clemency and affection, is most due. Remember that I am thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed. Everywhere I see bliss, from which I alone am irrevocably excluded. I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend. Make me happy, and I shall again be virtuous.”
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"How can I move thee? Will no entreaties cause thee to turn a favourable eye upon thy creature, who implores thy goodness and compassion? Believe me, Frankenstein, I was benevolent; my soul glowed with love and humanity; but am I not alone, miserably alone? You, my creator, abhor me; what hope can I gather from your fellow creatures, who owe me nothing? They spurn and hate me. The desert mountains and dreary glaciers are my refuge. I have wandered here many days; the caves of ice, which I only do not fear, are a dwelling to me, and the only one which man does not grudge. These bleak skies I hail, for they are kinder to me than your fellow beings."
Frankenstein's creature here refers to his knowledge of Milton's Paradise Lost.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 12, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
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The depiction of Frankenstein's creature is true to Shelley
Bram Stoker's Dracula not so much . . .
The show is great fun. So is Fox's Lucifer IMHO.
edit: Tom Ellis is perfect for the role of Lucifer. But the show almost didn't make it to season 2. At the last minute it was renewed. Go to Wiki and read about the coalition of Christian women that almost kept the show off TV initially. Critics seem to be concerned primarily about the show's narrative as a police procedural - and I would agree, that part's a little shallow.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 13, 2016 - 07:10am PT
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Thanks for the tip. I look forward to checking out Lucifer.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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May 13, 2016 - 11:51am PT
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The depiction of Frankenstein's creature is true to Shelley
I find this notion interesting, perhaps curious, especially telling.
It seems important that a person is “true to” someone else’s vision of this or that.
It’s another example of how important beliefs are. It’s not enough, apparently, to be aware of one’s own vision / perceptions. It’s as if people can’t come to their own vision on their own. Maybe some people lack the confidence to do so. People seem to rely upon others’ genius to know who and what they (and other things) are.
Maybe it’s the case that people suspect that they can’t actually find anything to base a vision upon. (That would be scary, huh?) People may not simply have the confidence in their own perceptions, or they simply can’t believe their own perceptions.
In my view, human beings present a great functioning, a fantastic perceptual mechanism, a compilation of powerful capabilities by which to perceive, reason, and question reality in robust ways—yet it seems to me that they seem to do so very little of it for themselves, by themselves. They parrot and rely upon other people’s concepts, beliefs, and expressions, but rarely develop any vision that would truly call their own. They don’t “do the work,” and they appear to be unwilling to try. They can’t seem to stand on our own two feet by themselves.
It seems like a great waste not to be creatively expressive, nihilistic, solipsistic—that is, it seems a great waste NOT to “read reality” for oneself using only one’s own innate and intrinsic capabilities.
Some might think reading reality would be far too complicated and uncertain to attempt with surety. I’d say it’s always available to anyone at any time and in any place.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 13, 2016 - 11:56am PT
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I don't see it as nearly that complicated. True to an author's vision simply means the reader in a sense communicates with an author and is aware of that author's mental construct. Sycorax could say it better . . .
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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May 13, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 13, 2016 - 12:47pm PT
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The most important human adaptation is the ability to live in large cooperative groups. Expanding cognition beyond individual navel gazing is a tremendous evolutionary innovation. The freedom to perform these individual pursuits, such as meditation, are afforded by society, individuals alone in the world do not have high survival chances, and, given the composition of humans today, are not represented in the "gene pool."
One is able to choose to "do the work" because others do the work which makes it possible.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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May 13, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
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Ed your correct getting along with others is the biggest challenge. Most Zen centers are basically communes and the biggest challenge is for the practitioners to get along. ZM Seung Sahn said the fastest form of practice is in group living situations because your karma comes up right in your face quickly due to you wanting things your way and that conflicts with others wanting things their way. He said the only way to work in harmony was to hold your opinions , condition and situation lightly. It all comes back to who is this "I" holding this opinion so rigidly. Basically people had to learn to just do there jobs and stop slandering their companions. It helped that everyone had to sit quietly with each other twice a day.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 13, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
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^^^^^^
No
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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May 13, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
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Ed: Expanding cognition beyond individual navel gazing . . . .
Good lord, . . . your characterizations. ("If it’s not one way, it must be just this one other way.")
This is not about meditation, for gosh sakes. It’s about exercising and relying upon one’s own abilities and whether or not one can either trust those or whether there is really anything to glean with them.
Again, the responses tend to focus on “survival,” the gene pool, evolution, conceptualizations.
Check your reality: is it all intergalactic and subatomic for you?
(I am so stupid.)
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WBraun
climber
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May 13, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
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Again, the responses tend to focus on “survival,” the gene pool, evolution, conceptualizations.
And you know why.
They're brainwashed .......
They're not seeing things as they are but as they're told they are ......
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 13, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
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"things as they are" has many levels.....
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 13, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
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Being provocative, the very idea of "one's own abilities" is necessarily a societal construction. You cannot even define what those would be without reference to social norms (it would be interesting for you to try, it is essentially Largo's challenge on the "Mind" thread).
It is doubtful that such a thing even exists in a socially concept free sense.
What is "real" is that we exist only as a population, not as individuals.
[que the Donne literary lesson]
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WBraun
climber
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May 13, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
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Right on cue ...
The minute I said "seeing things as they are"
They started talking right away.
So they are carrying all their brainwashing in their minds which blocks the "seeing" ....
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 13, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
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Whoa I see what you mean WBraun.
It's like you gave the cue for them to execute their faulty brain functioning, and then boom!, right away, there they go executing their faulty brain functioning. That's really cool. If they had been doing it right, like me, it would have taken them at least a half an hour. Maybe 45 minutes. QED.
We are always the gold standard in our own minds. Let's see them try to explain that with evolution!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 15, 2016 - 07:01am PT
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What would belief look like if it weren't dominated by religion? by supernaturalism? by theism?
What would belief in the West look like if it weren't dominated by Abrahamic religion?
Few in the 20th century asked this question.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 15, 2016 - 07:05am PT
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There wouldn't be a West without the bible, dork.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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May 15, 2016 - 07:08am PT
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What would belief look like if it weren't dominated by religion? Pointless question, because man's small mind needs religion. Take away one religion and it will be replaced by another.
There wouldn't be a West without the bible
You mean, the West would be significantly more advanced intellectually without the bible, don't ya?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 15, 2016 - 07:24am PT
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SLR, don't let milkbread's twisted definition of "belief" influence you.
I said "belief."
I'd bet you have some philosophical belief inside you. Scientific belief as well. All of it free of iron-age nonsense.
.....
Not to be missed, another TED link.
Janna Levin, astrophysicist...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
"Every talk about physics should have something that everyone can understand out of respect for the audience, something that only a few people can understand out of respect for the experts, and something nobody can understand out of respect for physics."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Vbho3331c
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