Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Agreed. And your "HUMAN" science of modern bio medicine is doing all it can to remedy and eradicate the natural system of all those few tools in order to prolong HUMAN life.
Perhaps you can educate me: What, exactly, do you think your primitive medicine man is attempting to accomplish? What, exactly, are you yourself attempting to accomplish every time you access the medical system or take a pill, or take a vitamin?
What, exactly, is an animal clan attempting to accomplish, when it moves from an area of scarcity, to an area of abundance?
It seems to me that you buy into the concept that HUMANS are not a part of nature.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
^^^ rad
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
The concept of dams keep seems to come up, in the press and elsewhere.
The DUMBEST idea possible.
We have water storage devices---aquifers---that have so much capacity, it is nearly beyond belief. The water stored in these devices need no treatment, does not evaporate, does not get contaminated.
We DO NOT NEED additional water storage.
On top of which, all the good sites are TAKEN. Any dam would be sited in a sub-optimal place.
What I fear is the building of a dam being done as an excuse for a jobs program. Inexcusable. A theft of money from those who need it.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
DMT, very little, if any of the water stored in San Luis Reservoir is used for Los Angeles.
Its virtually all for farming.
|
|
10b4me
climber
|
|
The concept of dams keep seems to come up, in the press and elsewhere.
The DUMBEST idea possible.
We have water storage devices---aquifers---that have so much capacity, it is nearly beyond belief. The water stored in these devices need no treatment, does not evaporate, does not get contaminated.
We DO NOT NEED additional water storage.
On top of which, all the good sites are TAKEN. Any dam would be sited in a sub-optimal place.
What I fear is the building of a dam being done as an excuse for a jobs program. Inexcusable. A theft of money from those who need it.
Unfortunately, Jerry Brown wants more dams. What a dumbass.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Politicians are not water engineers. They respond to what constituents tell them. They are being told that if only we had more dams, we would not be in this situation.
So.....
He needs to be educated.
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
Even William Mulholland was a strong advocate of using aquifers to store water. Less loss to evaporation and less saline warer as a result.
|
|
Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
|
|
DMT.....unlike Jerry's Bullet Train I did hear a logical argument for the tunnel project that I'll describe. I'm not saying I support it but thought I should share the rationale behind the project which I had never heard about or read until recently.
The planet is in fact warming and sea levels are rising. This is causing the salinity line in the Delta to move further inland to the East. This change is being amplified by the reduction of fresh water entering the Delta from the rivers of California's central valley's due to the drought.
The California Aquaduct draws it's water from a forebay on the South side of the Delta. The salinity line as it moves East will at some point cut off fresh water reaching the forebay. This project is basically a similar concept to the old peripheral canal idea. It's a way to by-pass the Delta due to climate change in order to ensure fresh water delivery to the San Joaquin Valley for it's agriculture and Southern California for its domestic water uses.
Jerry Brown see's himself as the infrastructure governor similar to his father who was the champion of the California Aquaduct. Like you I am not optimistic that this improvement on that system will be curtailed. The stakes are too high for Southern California where the states political muscle is strongest. Forgive the pun but the High Speed Rail Project stands a better chance of being derailed, like I said no one likes the idea. I agree with you the initiative process in California is a bad way to govern. I think if it were brought back to the voters it wouldn't stand a chance.
Charlie D.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
Isn't that the whole idea behind the entire state water system; Deliver water to the people who need it?
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Sure Chaz, but maybe you can define "need" for us.
Does a corporate mega farm NEED our water? Sure. Should they get it? And should they get it at rates below what a private person, who is not using that public good for a profit, pays?
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Jan 15, 2015 - 04:15pm PT
|
I like Gleick.^^^^
Good to know about the "water year" and invalid comparisons that mislead.
Thanks, Malemute.
End of February, 2014. It looked good, but...
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Jan 15, 2015 - 10:35pm PT
|
Well, it is pretty clear that this will not be a "make up" year of heavy precip.....it is very likely to be another lower than average year.
For the smaller places around the state, perhaps they should give thought to moving towards water independence.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2015 - 09:07am PT
|
Poor badger Pass. when are they going to get a snow making machine? I can remember years when there would be a 30 minute lift line on a 3 day weekend.
this drought is getting to be seriously boring. come on snow. where are you!!!
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2015 - 09:13am PT
|
thats too bad Ekat. they had plenty of moisture in Dec, but it must have been too warm.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2015 - 12:01pm PT
|
Personally, I think we are at a turning point WRT technology. Take, for example, the new Omniprocessor:
http://www.wired.com/2015/01/omniprocessor/
it takes sewage, and converts it very efficiently to pure water, and the remaining sludge is used as fuel to run the machine....producing net energy to sell. It actually would make a profit to run.
it cost 1.5 mil to build....the first one. But it will become much cheaper with volume. Add this to a town of 100,000, and it can change the dynamics in a major way.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2015 - 01:35pm PT
|
I hate to say, but DMT is on the right track.
We need more efficient handling of water, requiring fewer participants in the water chase. Let's start with stray animals. That could save millions of gallons.
Plant more strays.
Plant fewer orchards.
Treat plumbers like doctors, subject them to years of study at university, peer review, offer malpractice ins., and so forth. This might help save untold billions of gallons of water in keeping leaks to a minimum and miles of pipe might be reserved for other uses.
Hell, the present water system itself is so inefficient, it's unbelievable.
How easy is it to place a cover over the larger canals, at least? This has been a waster of water for as long as there have been canals, but the older cultures never thought much about evaporation loss, or so it seems.
Some of our technology is right out of the stone age. It may be simple and it may have been cheap to build back then, but is it efficient? How easily could it be replaced and at what cost? But costs are linked to present prices, and so that must be factored.
And...here's my pet peeve...we don't need politicos to be in charge of the water supply, we need technologists and scientists, who should "know how." Rome managed, barely. It was a so-called "great" civilization. They put people in charge of the Italian aqueducts who were idiots, especially in corrupt imperial Rome itself (I've been reading, Capt. or Scully) like we seem to do. Well, their intentions may be good, but they still don't belong in charge.
Every drop will eventually count.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2015 - 02:03pm PT
|
The real problem is that there are not enough scientists working on creating a water substitute or something similar.
When soldiers tired of hiking through the mud, they requested a method to de-hydrate it. Science responded with Ice-9.
Where in the hell is Reverse_Ice_9? Is it a patent issue?
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2015 - 08:48pm PT
|
Dingus, thanks for the kudos.
I am optimistic, because of what I see, and what I am involved with.
It is an aside, but I think worth talking about, the population issue. I became involved with this issue about 45 years ago, and I could not have been more pessimistic.
But something amazing has happened. What you hope for has happened.
In the 1950s, most countries in Latin America, Asia and Africa had low life expectancy and high birth rates; in most cases, more than 5 children per women.
Only five decades later, most of those countries have less than three children per woman, and much longer lives.
To really see the remarkable change that has happened, take a look at this TED talk, starting at 11:05.
http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_the_good_news_of_the_decade#t-663394
Or looked at another way, this entire TED 10 minute talk, and be amazed:
http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_growth
|
|
Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
|
Pretty dry so far in the SW San Juan mountains of CO . . . some nice early season snow, but not so much now.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!