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WBraun
climber
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Aug 19, 2015 - 05:25pm PT
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Werner believes consciousness exists independent of the meat
Not believes.
It's an undisputed fact and 100% confirmed thru a real scientific method which western mechanistic caveman science is clueless .....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 19, 2015 - 06:00pm PT
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There you have it.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 19, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
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Uh, Cintune . . . .
Did you listen to the dialogue between Woody Allen and Diane Keaton?
Pure nonsense, but it presents very important sounding words.
This, to me, points up how much people just talk and don’t really reason or look at what right in front of them. The intellect is so very highly overrated. But, by gosh, it’s clever!
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Aug 19, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
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Yes, I think that was the point.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 19, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
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The Republican Party has a glorious past.....Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt to name two. There were the Rockerfeller Republicans who were fiscally conservative but used reason and logic when looking at social issues.
The current iteration of the Party is nothing less than repugnant. It is both morally and intellectually repugnant.
There thinking is shallow, raciist and midieval in its rejection of science and dependence on the bible.
The fact that repubs think that a clown like Donald Trump could be president says it all, in my opinion.
There ranting and raving is the death cry of a morbid institution on the wrong side of history.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 19, 2015 - 08:50pm PT
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This, to me, points up how much people just talk and don’t really reason or look at what right in front of them. The intellect is so very highly overrated
To talk but not use reason is no argument against the intellect. Perhaps you didn't mean that.
There ranting and raving is the death cry of a morbid institution on the wrong side of history
Oh, you're talking about the republican party. For a minute I thought you were referring to meditators. Easy to make that mistake!
;>)
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Aug 20, 2015 - 11:31am PT
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Meditation and meditators are alive and well. Just type in "mindfulness" or "meditation and brain scans" to see it is a current concern of many people including scientists. What it signifies other than brain training is the argument here and one that may or may not be known in the near future.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Aug 20, 2015 - 12:20pm PT
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Astrologanomaly;
The rare occurance in which the practice of believing that dumb luck, fate, and the position of the stars denotes the mental capacity for humans to govern themselves and the requisite belief whereby the illusion myth that science and religion must be married to the unified theory of monumental ignorance towards logic combined with the suicidal compulsion to practice intolerance and hate towards others actually works (sarcasm).
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 20, 2015 - 05:49pm PT
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Me: This, to me, points up how much people just talk and don’t really reason or look at what right in front of them. The intellect is so very highly overrated
Jgill: To talk but not use reason is no argument against the intellect. Perhaps you didn't mean that.
And I didn’t mean your interpretation, either. “Overrated” means, and is, exactly what I wrote. Being-in-the-world is not a competition among the rationality of the intellect, the set of passions we call emotions or heart, the brilliance of what the body provides of everything it registers, the imaginative means by which we tell every sort of story to one another, and so forth. You seem to be suggesting some set of prioritization. To my mind, that’s just so . . . one-sided.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 20, 2015 - 06:11pm PT
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You seem to be suggesting some set of prioritization. To my mind, that’s just so . . . one-sided
Nope. But when you suggest the intellect is "so very highly overrated" rather than simply saying the intellect is overrated, it seems you are proposing that the crowning glory of nature - our intellect - is no better than a flash of emotion, an experience I share with Jake Corgi.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 20, 2015 - 06:16pm PT
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Those with good intellect do not accept themselves to be the body.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 20, 2015 - 06:36pm PT
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Why?
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 20, 2015 - 06:54pm PT
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Yes .. Why?
Then you must find out why and not blindly accept.
And use your good intellect ......
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 20, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
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"The human brain is the source of our thoughts, emotions, perceptions, actions, and memories; it confers on us the abilities that make us human, while simultaneously making each of us unique. Over recent years, neuroscience has advanced to the level that we can envision a comprehensive understanding of the brain in action, spanning molecules, cells, circuits, systems, and behavior. This vision, in turn, inspired the BRAIN Initiative."
http://braininitiative.nih.gov/2025/index.htm
I love the "spanning molecules, cells, circuits, systems, and behavior" part.
PS... Go Bill!
.....
It is Carla Shatz who coined in the nineties the famous sentence summarizing the Hebbian theory : "Cells that fire together, wire together".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carla_J._Shatz
The Developing Brain, by Carla Shatz
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQFjABahUKEwjI9oHtj7nHAhWDjA0KHW4DBVs&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcognitrn.psych.indiana.edu%2Fbusey%2FQ301%2Fpdfs%2FShatzDevelop.pdf&ei=QYzWVYjSFoOZNu6GlNgF&usg=AFQjCNHqmP0Xpf88rivgDutkx4SpTzq3mQ&cad=rja
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 20, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
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"the word "conscience" beaks down to con being in opposition of something"
This is incorrect.
So too, the second part... consciens precedes the English science (yes, derived from Latin)... so the best rendering (ie the most valid and accurate rendering) is joint knowledge < together to know (con, with +scire, to know).
Sorry, JB.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 20, 2015 - 10:09pm PT
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Jgill: . . . that the crowning glory of nature - our intellect - is no better than a flash of emotion, an experience I share with Jake Corgi.
What your experiences are I cannot know. You tell me what your interpretations are. Weighing-out intellect (rationality) in any way for comparison or prioritization to any other medium of wisdom is apples and oranges to me. They are (way beyond) wildly different. “There is no comparison” means that they can’t be compared because the bases of comparison are not available. To make a comparison, one needs the same set of values and standards. I just don’t see that. Compare the water in the ocean to the rock on El Cap.
Pffttttt.
Jim Brennan:
“Con” is *with*, not in violation “of . . . .”
Without my body, how would I know anything about what's supposedly my former self ?
You don't need to do that.
Look to any word that you’ve written right there and get to the bottom of what that word is supposed to mean. The absolute bottom of it. Look closely and you might see that none of it exists as appears evident.
What IS at the bottom of anything / everything? Why, . . . what’s right in front of you--that without labels or elaboration. What is your very experience of experience itself? To see THAT requires de-programming. At the end of this “evolution thing,” we don’t gain or attain . . . we uncover.
I'd say you’re making-up problems that don’t exist.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 21, 2015 - 03:25pm PT
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. . . is apples and oranges to me. They are (way beyond) wildly different (MikeL)
Agreed. Just for the record I do believe apples are so very highly overrated (compared to oranges).
“There is no comparison” means that they can’t be compared because the bases of comparison are not available
Thanks. That really clarifies things.
;>)
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Aug 21, 2015 - 10:18pm PT
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“A man's at odds to know his mind cause his mind is aught he has to know it with. He can know his heart, but he dont want to. Rightly so. Best not to look in there. It aint the heart of a creature that is bound in the way that God has set for it. You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it.”
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