Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2010 - 11:40am PT
|
I'm all for war crimes trials with Israel, Gaza and the US standing side by side.
It's yom kippur Fatty. Time to Atone. That 25 hour fast will be good for your climbing!
Peace
Karl
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2010 - 07:31pm PT
|
September 15, 2010
The Strange — and Tragic — Case of Nagla Imam
by Raymond Ibrahim
Pajamas Media
Uncovering the truth is always a convoluted affair when it comes to the Middle East. Consider the case of the Egyptian Nagla Iman. Is she a Muslim woman who advocates the sexual harassment of Jewish women, or a Christian woman, who advocates human rights — especially for fellow women of all faiths?
The story begins last June 24, when I was a guest on I Was a Prisoner, which airs weekly on the Arabic satellite station Tarek TV ("Way TV"). Named after its host, Nabil Bissada, who was imprisoned and tortured in Egypt for facilitating the way for Muslims to convert to Christianity, I Was a Prisoner explores the lack of human rights in Muslim countries.
Prior to the show, I was told a well-known Egyptian lawyer was scheduled to call in and discuss how the Egyptian government was harassing her for converting. Nagla called in and expressed her situation as follows:
After being a prominent lawyer for years, she was fired for converting to Christianity; nor would the government, as usual, allow her formally to change her religion from Muslim to Christian on her I.D. card. As a result, she tried to organize a public demonstration against the government, with other Muslim converts to Christianity. The demonstration was quickly dispersed by the police, the demonstrators beaten and threatened; and the Muslim mob got in on the action. The young daughter of one Christian convert who broke her arm was denied medical attention.
After the show, I decided to google Nagla Imam's name, and it was then that I discovered the strange remarks attributed to her. The contradiction was stunning: I contacted Nabil, who said he would investigate the matter.
On 7 July 2010, Nabil contacted me by phone on the Nagla case. According to him, here are where things stand:
He called and asked Nagla about the sexual harassment remark; she became livid and frustrated, saying she never said such a thing, and that that video was intentionally doctored by her Islamist opponents who run the Saudi-sponsored station Al Arabiya to slander her name. (Nabil added that, due to her human rights work — years back, she tried to pass a law banning polygamy in Egypt to the point that Al Azhar proclaimed her an infidel — Islamists have been trying to undermine her for years.)
As for her personal situation, approximately two weeks ago, state security arrested and took Nagla to a government building in Cairo. There, a top official twisted the crucifix she was wearing, tightening the chain around her neck, while saying "the cross will be the death of you." The official then proceeded to beat her — giving her a black eye, a bruised body, and broken teeth. Before releasing her, he said, "Stay in your house, till you are carried out to your grave," adding that, if she does not return to Islam, "people" will be dispatched to "take care of her."
Nabil concluded by saying that Nagla and her two young children are trapped indoors — their entire Muslim family having turned their backs on them — and besieged by the mob, which bangs on the doors and windows and has cut off (no doubt, thanks to the government) all electricity to the house, leaving Nagla and her children in the dark (see here for a video where a battered Nagla sings a psalm with her children).
Finally, a top Muslim cleric, Salim Abdul Galil, appeared on an Al Azhar affiliated station proclaiming Nagla an "infidel," adding she must either return to Islam or spend the remainder of her life indoors.
It should be observed that such a verdict accords perfectly not only with Islamic law in general, which is Egypt's "primal source of legislation," but the Hanafi school in particular, which is dominant in Egypt: rather than kill apostate women outright, the "lenient" Hanafis recommend that women be beaten (the government official took care of that) and then imprisoned in their homes (the Muslim cleric has seen to that) until they see the "error of their ways" and return to Islam.
Postscript: Last we heard, Nagla and her children have completely disappeared, bringing back the government official's threat to mind — that "people" could be sent to "take care of her." To learn more about the Nagla Imam story, contact Way TV: (661) 233-8787.
©2010 Raymond Ibrahim
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 02:06am PT
|
The real Clash of Civilizations is between the power elite and their vampirish victims, the American People and people of the world. They disguise this clash by creating boogeymen to worry and distract us.
From
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/09/17-5
"While 43.6 million Americans live in poverty, the richest men of finance sure are getting pissy. First Steve Schwartzman, head of the Blackrock private equity company, compares the Obama administration's effort to close billionaires' tax loopholes to "the Nazi invasion of Poland." Then hedge fund mogul David Loeb announces that he's abandoning the Democrats because they're violating "this country's core founding principles" -- including "non-punitive taxation, Constitutionally-guaranteed protections against persecution of the minority, and an inexorable right of self-determination." Instead of showing their outrage about the spread of poverty in the richest nation on Earth, the super-rich want us to pity them?
Why are Wall Street's billionaires so whiny? Is it really possible to make $900,000 an hour (not a typo -- that's what the top ten hedge fund managers take in), and still feel aggrieved about the way government is treating you? After you've been bailed out by the federal government to the tune of $10 trillion (also not a typo) in loans, asset swaps, liquidity and other guarantees, can you really still feel like an oppressed minority?
You'd think the Wall Street moguls would be thankful. Not just thankful -- down on their knees kissing the ground taxpayers walk on and hollering hallelujah at the top of their lungs! These guys profited from puffing up the housing bubble, then got bailed out when the going got tough. (Please see The Looting of America for all the gory details.) Without taxpayer largess, these hedge fund honchos would be flat broke. Instead, they're back to hauling in obscene profits.
These billionaires don't even have to worry about serious financial reforms. The paltry legislation that squeaked through Congress did nothing to end too big and too interconnected to fail. In fact, the biggest firms got even bigger as they gobbled up troubled banks, with the generous support of the federal government. No bank or hedge fund was broken up. Nobody was forced to pay a financial transaction tax. None of the big boys had a cap placed on their astronomical wealth. No one's paying reparations for wrecking the US economy. The big bankers are still free to create and trade the very derivatives that catapulted us into this global crisis. You'd think the billionaires would be praying on the altar of government and erecting statues on Capital Hill in honor of St. Bailout.
Instead, standing before us are these troubled souls, haunted by visions of persecution. Why?...."
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 09:13am PT
|
Excellent post Karl.
|
|
Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
|
Dadyyyyyy!
Kahled keeps poking me in the eye.
No I didn't!
Yes you did!
No I didn't!
Yes you did!
Well, Bibi, you poked me first!
No I didn't!
Yes you did!
No I didn't!
Yes you did!
..... different religions, same root-genetic-stock, same bad attitude.
Hatfields and McCoys......
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 12:14pm PT
|
Didn't see this till recently. I have spent several days working for free in the burn zone helping folks get generators set up. Some things are more important than than Fat's attempt to gloat.
Sure Fats sure.
First I would like to point out that your earlier use of the word "alleged" to describe the illegal use of WP by Israel was very disingenuous. It has been unequivocally shown that Israel engaged in war crimes in Gaza including the use of WP against civilians.
That being said I condemn the illegal use of WP by all parties and would advocate for war crimes tribunals for all.
How about you? Will you admit and condemn Israel's use of WP in Gaza? Will you call for war crimes tribunals for those Israelis responsible?
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 12:25pm PT
|
How about you? Will you admit and condemn Israel's use of WP in Gaza? Will you call for war crimes tribunals for those Israelis responsible?
Well Fats, how about it????????????
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 12:28pm PT
|
How about you? Will you admit and condemn Israel's use of WP in Gaza? Will you call for war crimes tribunals for those Israelis responsible?
Well Fats, how about it????????????
Hey Crowley, I know you get lots of grief from the mouth breathers but you are one cat I would like to meet around a real camp fire.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
|
Still waiting for the FatMan.
Crickets....
How about you? Will you admit and condemn Israel's use of WP in Gaza? Will you call for war crimes tribunals for those Israelis responsible?
Well Fats, how about it????????????
This ridiculous game is fun. Fats, did you have as much fun as I am having when you were at bat?
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
|
Crickets chirping loudly....
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 12:44pm PT
|
Big Fat Liar! How dare you press me to comment on "alleged" Palestinian use of WP while you stand against the facts and deny Israeli use of WP against Gazan citizens.
Nor did they use DIME weapons. All those dismembered bodies were faked for the world media.
Nor did they shoot pregnant women in the uterus. "Two kills with one shot" is a popular T shirt among the IDF. it shows a bull's eye on a pregnant women. Classy.
Nor do the hake Nukes, Chemical weapons and biological weapons.
About the only thing the IDF didn't use against Gaza was DU (depleted uranium, as that would poison the land for when they have driven off or murdered all the Palestinians.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
|
Israel did not use WP against the Palestinians,
Then who DID they use them against?
Oh yeah I know those dirty evil doing terrorists occupying Jewish land that's who.
Yeah right!
|
|
Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 01:08pm PT
|
Israel did not use WP against the Palestinians
You and Ahmedinejad have more in common than you think.....
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
|
So if the Israelis refuse to stop settlement building they will prove the have no interest in peaceful co-existence with the Palestinians. Of course that wont stop them from blaming the Palestinians for the collapse of peace talks. Then DaftRat can spew about Maddy Albright running after Arafat with one high heel waving.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2010 - 01:24pm PT
|
Nor did they specialize in head shots for children.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2010 - 03:44am PT
|
Real Clash of civilizations here. Conditional support of Israel is another hallmark of the most elite money that rules us.
Why are Wall Street's billionaires so whiny? Is it really possible to make $900,000 an hour (not a typo -- that's what the top ten hedge fund managers take in), and still feel aggrieved about the way government is treating you? After you've been bailed out by the federal government to the tune of $10 trillion (also not a typo) in loans, asset swaps, liquidity and other guarantees, can you really still feel like an oppressed minority?
You'd think the Wall Street moguls would be thankful. Not just thankful -- down on their knees kissing the ground taxpayers walk on and hollering hallelujah at the top of their lungs! These guys profited from puffing up the housing bubble, then got bailed out when the going got tough. (Please see The Looting of America for all the gory details.) Without taxpayer largess, these hedge fund honchos would be flat broke. Instead, they're back to hauling in obscene profits.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2010 - 07:29pm PT
|
Fats, what does that have to do with the whopper lie you told up thread?
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2010 - 07:58pm PT
|
Four out of the nine GRAD rounds were WP. They weren't used as air burst obscurant rounds. They were addressed "to whom it may concern"
In fairness, Hamas operatives probably don't know what the Russian color banding scheme means. They would however be even more gleeful if they were nerve gas or radioactive.
Last weeks sermon from Gaza.
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2605.htm
The present peace talks are a fools errand.
Abbas is a dead man if there's any hint of progress.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!