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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 19, 2010 - 04:44pm PT
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Denialist arguments sometimes sound like a fortress of contradictions...
There is no warming.
Maybe it's warming, but for natural reasons.
Maybe humans are to blame, but only the ones in China.
It is too costly to do anything about it.
It is too late to do anything about it.
Maybe global warming will be good.
The contradictions are unified by their underlying message, though:
DON'T REDUCE FOSSIL FUEL USE!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Feb 19, 2010 - 04:44pm PT
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Ed, I do WANT to disprove the AGW. Not because I'm a stupid redneck moron who can't understand science. I understand much of it. Not all.
I just find it very arrogant that people like Wes claim that I'm not in a position to critique 'their science' because I'm not in the field. Chiloe too makes the same condescending remarks. As 'enlightened' experts they should realize that defending the CRU and Hansen's e-mails is damaging to their argument.
A real scientist would call them frauds and a shame on the scientific community. A real scientist would DEMAND that ALL data that the IPCC relies on be released openly.
NO?
I don't deny GW, I am skeptical of AGW.
Sun cycles is what I believe in.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Feb 19, 2010 - 04:55pm PT
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Your purposeful misreading can always be relied on Ed.
That emotional linkage you have to the idea of AGW is clouding your judgment.
A simple number could ease your fears of AGW. Our Sun
pounds the Earth with 8000 times the energy we humans
are producing. If CO2 doubling had any effect on the half
that reaches the surface we'd be toast, but we're just fine.
Relax. Be happy.
AGW is a scam and it's making those who know its a scam richer
than the emotional true believers.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 19, 2010 - 05:00pm PT
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I just find it very arrogant that people like Wes claim that I'm not in a position to critique 'their science' because I'm not in the field. Chiloe too makes the same condescending remarks.
Bluey, you are calling people liars over and over, in posts that show absolutely no effort on your part to understand what they actually said.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 19, 2010 - 05:01pm PT
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A simple number could ease your fears of AGW. Our Sun
pounds the Earth with 8000 times the energy we humans
are producing. If CO2 doubling had any effect on the half
that reaches the surface we'd be toast, but we're just fine.
Relax. Be happy.
CC, you use science words but just about every post shows that, like bluey, you haven't tried to read or understand the science.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Feb 19, 2010 - 05:03pm PT
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CC, you use science words but just about every post shows that, like bluey, you haven't tried to read or understand the science.
Have you? Of solar cycles? The short cycle and the longer one?
I'm not calling you a liar, Chiloe, because you extrapolate sh#t with their data. I'm saying the data and data gathering methods are flawed.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 19, 2010 - 05:09pm PT
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Hmm, well, I've heard a fair number of talks by folks doing solar research, and cited some of them on this thread -- from NASA's heliophysics project, for example. And I've read quite a few papers. So yes, I have tried to understand what they're saying, though I'm not a solar scientist myself.
Solar variability has alway been an integral part of modern climate research.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 19, 2010 - 05:12pm PT
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Chiloe, because you extrapolate sh#t with their data
I extrapolate what sh#t with whose data? Are you just making up facts?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Feb 19, 2010 - 05:26pm PT
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Chiloe, don't misunderstand me. I mean that sometimes people like yourself quote studies based on, now proven, faulty means.
Take the ACU data and the 'hockey stick', how many people waltz around quoting that as "settled science"?
EDIT: Dr.F is like bluey on steroids....ignore him. He's incapable of rationality.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 19, 2010 - 05:43pm PT
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Bluey, longterm temperature graphs showing roughly that "hockey stick" shape have been replicated many times, by many researchers, using many different datasets. The existence of those replications has been mentioned many times on this thread, by Ed, Weschrist and others. I've posted a graph from a very recent article drawing on a thousand different proxy records. That article was published in the leading U.S. journal of science, after peer review by paleoclimatologists. These are folks who do know about the sun, about cycles, about heat islands, black carbon, and a whole lot else.
And there are other folks who don't know anything about it, but are sure they know enough to call "liar."
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Feb 19, 2010 - 05:43pm PT
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That's really scientific, Doug!
Especially based on a wack-job thread like that. Do you actually agree with his rantings?
Repubs are ALWAYS wrong about EVERYTHING? I mean even the NAZI's had one or two things right?
How can you throw down a blanket like that? F's a schmuck and further proof that being a scientist doesn't mean you're "smart".
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Feb 19, 2010 - 05:57pm PT
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hahaha.... blue's panties are so bunched up he can't even tell when I'm f'ing around.... sorry dude. it was a joke.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Feb 19, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
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My question to you is: why do you bother to post?
Ed, I figure this thread is the ST holding area for GW info. When I come across stories I post them here, that's all.
Kinda like TGT's Afghan thread. Keep it all in one place, right?
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Feb 19, 2010 - 06:23pm PT
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Hey Blue.... do yourself a favor. quit calling it GW. Switch to GCC. It'll be one step towards at least looking like you understand what's going on.
Jus' sayin'
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Feb 19, 2010 - 06:24pm PT
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Dr. F has shown the bottom line,
"Republican = wrong on everything"
manmade global warming is a political agenda,
the science would be to say, there is no database thatcould possibly have basis for a conclusion. we are talking 100 years of measurements versus 500 million years of cycles... nuts.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 19, 2010 - 06:30pm PT
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EB, I know people who study those million-year changes. They don't think the GHG concerns are nuts, on the contrary some think the IPCC is too conservative, because they've "seen" what the climate system can do.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Feb 19, 2010 - 06:37pm PT
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If these idiots wanted any kind of response they'd call if GLOBAL CLIMATE POLLUTION.
You can't disagree with that!
F*#king schmuck nazi environmentalists don't get it though, kinda like the environmental version of PETA freaks....
They'll be proven wrong in time though...at least PETA has a somewhat legit arguement.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 19, 2010 - 06:40pm PT
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Bluering, I read your complaints about "condescending" or "arrogant" as a cry for respect. But you're going the opposite way from earning it.
F*#king schmuck nazi environmentalists don't get it though
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Feb 19, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
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They'll be proven wrong in time though
you mean.... like... proven wrong in the same way we will eventually prove that god doesn't exist?
or bigfoot....?
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