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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Apr 16, 2013 - 10:20am PT
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Roy,
I can accept the contiuum but it has a gradient. It's now in another Quadrant.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:20am PT
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DINGUS!
You are way too funny. I applaud your sense of humor!
Not only that, you're an original thinker; unafraid to ruminate and operate outside the box.
AWESOME! Please don't ever change.
We'll do lunch!
Best,
Tar
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Apr 16, 2013 - 10:23am PT
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Tarbuster,
you are a little unrestrained at time too, but yes lunch sound great.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:30am PT
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I can accept the contiuum but it has a gradient. Indeed it does; to include linear evolution, divergent evolution, sea changes and all the rest ... as you and I discussed and agreed ... way, way up thread.
These concepts or realities if you will, neither exclude the wide variety of local expressions in terms of activities, terminology, goals, and general ways of achieving satisfaction in climbing nor do they invalidate our particular view of what trad is, was, or does.
Vive La Différence
Disclaimer: This is purely a characterization of my experiences with trad and is not intended to impugn the preferences of sport climbers,
Nor is it an indictment or criticism of sport climbing practices.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:32am PT
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you are a little unrestrained at time too Good lord that's an understatement! I'm sure this is why we get along so well!
You should come out to the Moab Sushi fest!
It's this weekend.
Yours,
Tarbousier
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:35am PT
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Contact nature for info on Moab Sushi Fest.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:35am PT
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Flyer from a TradFest back in 2008:
photomanipulation by Ray Olson
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Apr 16, 2013 - 10:47am PT
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Ed,
it's about Real Risk, you can make all the heads trip chats, posts and long talks but you have a watered down version of evaluating real risk.
I would never think nor need to have my route cleaning epics thought of as TRAD.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:50am PT
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I have no doubt that there is risk rapping down and cleaning a route, I've done it myself many times, I never considered it Trad.
My sense, Ed, isn't that he's saying it's trad per se, [see post just above ^^^], it's that Dingus interprets this activity as constituting a form of adventure equivalent to or greater than the adventure available to us in trad. And furthermore I'm pretty clear that he's firm on a viewpoint that trad is dead, or at the least totally irrelevant.
I've agreed with him that the term has become so conflated with other things that it is either an anachronism are fast becoming one.
But I do not believe, for my part, that trad is dead. No sir.
Just fading, and certainly a bit obscure by this point.
All this is just a take away from his experience, and part of an argument as well of course, but an opinion nonetheless.
It takes all kinds of people to fill the freeways!
 Johnny Carson
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 11:06am PT
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Dingus said to Ed,
[Ed] ... you can make all the heads trip chats, posts and long talks [you want] Please Ed, roll out some more of those. The last was a jewel!
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Apr 16, 2013 - 11:21am PT
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Ed,
to do SuperChicken with sticky shoes nowdays is but stepping on the mere shadow of what doing these routes was like with hard rubber back then.
Jaybro,
it was this 1972 trip to Tuolume where we met the Galoute, he gave us an in order to do route list of the runouts of the day existing there. I guess he had never climbed in the Black Hills Needles for most of these were nothing unusual having been used to Needle's scant to none protection climbs.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 11:29am PT
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Speaking of TRAD, Dingus, yes, I concur in that I have found climbing in the Black Hills quite reminiscent of the Tuolumne headspace.
Readers: remember, Bob Kamps, one of the tradsters running the sternest ethic, Bob Kamps: mentor to Higgins as Rich Goldstone reminds us, climbed perennially in both of these locale.
*Dingus: please remind me if you would, who is The Galoute?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Apr 16, 2013 - 11:33am PT
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If you tradsters want to make your scene more authentic/realistic, kind of like the "Living History" that the National Prank Servace puts on display I suggest you start by requiring all members to get a pair of Kronhoffers and require the lead climber to wear them with a news boy Cap.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Apr 16, 2013 - 11:49am PT
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Tarbuster,
The Galoute gained his nickname by being in real person the best imitator of Neil Baxtrum.
Perhaps ironic to my current views, but I had the good fortune that during my second month from beginning climbing to meet Kamps in the backcountry of the Needles while they were doing a pinnacle climb. Yes, I met and climbed with Powell(some in California), Rearick and Higgins, latter Gill.
Once while with Powell on Tauquitz just after the Robinson Story on clean climbing appeared, Mark hammered in piton. The crew near by called us dirty SOB's. Powell glanced at me and said this could be fight, "Are you with me on this."
"Absolutely," I fired back. We talked along side the new nutheads, and I suggested we might get more nuts but pitons were not dead just yet. No fighting. Circa 1972.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 16, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
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And some women have another take on this! re Cilley
Boy is that, the truth!
You talked to the Galute recently, Dingus?
"Galoute?" He's French?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
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I suggest you start by requiring all members to get a pair of Kronhoffers and require the lead climber to wear them with a news boy Cap
Dude! I am so on your page. Granted, the newsboy cap is just an approximation and these are actually Vasque Directissima, yet even Higgins was drooling over them when I snagged them off the Internet in mint condition back in 2006.
Note the hybrid technology: bowline on the coil, but with double ropes!
The double ropes have been around in Europe for a long time, but they are sort of new school around here, no? (last 30 years)?
I mean Californians never used them that's for sure, so as an ex pat Callie boy, I am darn near progressive.
It takes all kinds of people to fill the freeways!
Johnny Carson
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
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Once while with Powell on Tauquitz just after the Robinson Story on clean climbing appeared, Mark hammered in piton. The crew near by called us dirty SOB's. Powell glanced at me and said this could be fight, "Are you with me on this."
Nice!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 16, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
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I still have a pair of kronhofers.
Gotta get some ropesoled shoes so I can climb Weissner with Smed, though!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
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DMT♥ !!!!
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Apr 16, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
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Ed,
please note I now say Kronhoffers, but regardless I will stick with sticky rubber.
But I say, ED, get a clue: Anyone [almost] climbing can tell by feel the difference between old & new rubber, measurements aside.
But again I say call your group whatever, but when you start leading with Kronhoffers having hard rubber, any and all things aside, many of us will grant you TRAD.
Tarbuster,
this is my last post on this thread for I have got the admissions and posting I wanted & expected (thanks ED for generous contributions for my edification) as to what Trad now is. For by being current Trad, I would miss all the Real Risk taking offers when measured by the gradient method that I now get by not being in this trad grouping.
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