The Gun debate sandbox

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Shack

Big Wall climber

Reno NV

Jul 29, 2012 - 01:54am PT

I think there is an unrecognized premise buried here. There are a lot of gun fanciers here and a lot of people who also would like to get rid of government. Think for a moment.

Where in the world did you come up with that?
Anybody actually in favor of Anarchy? I doubt it.
Dude, you read way too much into these posts.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jul 29, 2012 - 02:15am PT

the only reason to use a gun is to threaten someone else's life, for whatever the cause...

Tell that to my paper targets so that they will feel relieved.

Shack

Big Wall climber

Reno NV

Jul 29, 2012 - 03:23am PT

Maybe these guys are just hunting for fish?

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Jul 29, 2012 - 08:42am PT

If results are the only criteria, handguns are used to commit suicide more often than

killing an animal (hunting) or kill another human being.

http://www.totalcriminaldefense.com/news/articles/criminal-evidence/gun-deaths-suicides-statistics.aspx

Suicides account for more shooting deaths than gun deaths that occur during robberies or other crimes.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Jul 29, 2012 - 09:01am PT

jstan,

where do you get this standing guard for 12 hours while you sleep thing? Even the government doesn't do that. They show up if someone tells them that a crime happened. So to be fair, that's what you could do when your wife sleeps.

Or you could be right next to her, with a way to stop a crime if it starts. Unlike the government.

Better yet, she could have the same tools to stop crime herself, wherever she might be.

How many times has the government/police stopped a robbery of a home before the residents compared to residents stopping it?

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

Boulder, Colorado!

Jul 29, 2012 - 09:37am PT

The data presented here so far include incidents that have and have not been reported to the police.

Clearly, if one used data based on police reports, defensive use of guns would be veeeeeeery low!

Don Paul

Big Wall climber

Colombia, South America

Jul 29, 2012 - 10:22am PT

Future warfare will eventually become entirely a civilian activity. Apparently this is what people want.

As I posted before, right now the UN is debating an arms control treaty, which just got delayed on Friday. The impetus is to reduce the flow of assault rifles and other weapons to resistance/terrorist groups, who naturally are opposed to the idea, making the same arguments as the gun nuts in the US.

I see heavy weapons all the time in Colombia, including 50 caliber machine guns on APCs that guard the side of the road. The national police all have machine guns, and when the army comes out on holidays (guerrillas tend to attack more then) some of them carry grenade launchers. So posting pictures of semi automatic weapons here doesn't scare me and even looks a bit juvenile.

In my work I have investigated about 2500 gun homicides in Colombia. There are a lot of children here, recruited into illegal gangs, with hand guns. Last year, a 12 year old boy shot and killed a guy in a wheelchair, apparently a lookout of some kind, about 2 blocks from my office. For a 12 year old neglected child, and handgun and a job like this makes him feel like a man. I have also seen children in Colombia, reading glossy gun magazines. Unfortunately, many of them get sucked in before they have a chance to grow up.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jul 29, 2012 - 10:54am PT

Don't kid yourself.

It won't be a joke if it is utilized to undermine the Second Amendment using the same old specious arguments directed at voting civilians who's only knowledge of guns comes from TV and movies.

zBrown

Ice climber

chingadero de chula vista

Jul 29, 2012 - 11:39am PT

Now, what would you do about the 300 million or so firearms ALREADY in private hands?

Uh, pound 'em into plowshares? Either that or give them to the generals.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Jul 29, 2012 - 11:43am PT

Again, I own guns and support our right to own them, but it seems the "gun nuts" are trying everything they can to avoid the real debate: what can we do to limit the amount of very dangerous guns that can end up in the hands of the wrong people. They seem to be saying they should have access to any firearm with any capacity. And if that means some end up in the hands of psychos and kids in third world countries so be it.

It seems handguns are a lot more of a problem than tactical weapons, but even trying to restrict access to them you run into opposition. I have no problems with CA types regulations for handguns.

It does seem like most laws target the wrong people. Instead of restricting what law abiding citizens should get I think laws would be more effective if the punishment for possessing or even more importantly using a weapon you are not legally entitled to own should be very severe. But of course we'd have to clear our prisons of low grade drug offenders to make room for them...

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jul 29, 2012 - 11:56am PT

I agree with you on making room in the prisons, but when you start talking about limiting "very dangerous guns", ... well, you're a smart person Fet. You know where this goes.

People who obey the law are put at a disadvantage.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jul 29, 2012 - 01:10pm PT

You could say it right into their ears, but the anti-gun crowd can't hear you.

monolith

climber

albany,ca

Jul 29, 2012 - 01:27pm PT

Gun control doesn't mean all guns removed from private citizens.

Try whispering that into a gun nuts ear.

Seems like you should know that after 24 years Jody.

What country does not have gun control laws? Somalia?

zBrown

Ice climber

chingadero de chula vista

Jul 29, 2012 - 02:04pm PT

... good idea, how do you propose to get those 300 million guns out of the hands of the citizens?

The usual. Offer money. I'd do the cost-benefit analysis, but I gotta go listen to some songs.

If you asked Dr. Hartouni, he might do it. He seems to have almost unlimited patience.

Well it is Sunday, please feel free to join me for a dip. Everybody's gonna die as "they" say.

Blind Boys of Alabama, Wade in the Water
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Jul 29, 2012 - 02:54pm PT

WASHINGTON -- Conservative Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said Sunday that there are "undoubtedly" limits to a person's right to bear arms under the Second Amendment, but that future court cases will have to decide where to draw the line.

Scalia pointed out Sunday that that the Second Amendment "obviously" doesn't apply to weapons that can't be hand-carried, and modern-day weapons like "hand-held rocket launchers that can bring down airplanes" weren't factored in at the time of the writing of the Constitution.

ah, so there ARE limits to the Second Amendment

and one limit is weapons that can't be "hand carried"

interesting, especially coming from arguably THE most conservative Justice

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Jul 29, 2012 - 03:20pm PT

Sounds like what I've been saying.

There is a difference between crew served weapons and individual arms - the type you would expect militia members to show up with to muster.

crankster

Trad climber

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Jul 29, 2012 - 03:34pm PT

More guns = more murder...

WORCESTER, Mass. (AP) — A man who had recently separated from his wife shot his two children, killing his 7-year-old daughter, before committing suicide, prosecutors said.

A family member called police Saturday night after finding the bodies of 41-year-old Daryl Benway and his daughter, Abigail, in the master bedroom of their two-story Oxford home, Worcester County District Attorney Joseph Early Jr. said.

Benway's 9-year-old son, Owen, was found shot in the head in the kitchen and was taken to UMass Memorial Children's Medical Center in serious condition. Owen has been in pediatric intensive care, a spokesman for Early said Sunday. He said he had no additional information about Owen Benway's condition, and a hospital spokeswoman would not comment.

Benway's wife, Kelleen, returned home after the shootings, unaware of what had happened, and found a swarm of police cruisers and television crews, Early said. She was taken to the children's hospital, where authorities told her the fates of her children and husband.

Neighbors told the Telegram & Gazette that Daryl Benway's brother Shawn lived on the first floor of the home with his wife and mother. Shawn Benway called 911 to report the shootings, Early said.

Early said he couldn't speculate on a motive. He said the Benways separated weeks ago but were still married.

No restraining orders had been filed against Daryl Benway, and he had no criminal record, the DA said. He had a gun license that expired in 1999, Early said.

On Daryl Benway's Facebook page, his profile picture posted in December showed him with his family in front of a Christmas tree. He described the woman next to him as "my Beautiful wife Kelleen." Owen stood in front of him in a white dress shirt and red plaid tie, while brown-haired Abigail wore a black and white dress with a black hair bow.