Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Gene
Social climber
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 01:41am PT
|
Klimmer,
I ask the following with respect and curiosity. If I am not mistaken, in this &/or other threads you have stated your belief in Jesus. You have quoted the Good Book and seem very conversant in matters of Christian faith. John 3:16 is the Bible’s verse of verses.
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Doesn’t John 3:16 preclude salvation for Aliens since God’s love for our world resulted in “His one and only Son” coming here and not elsewhere in the universe?
If men were created in the image of God, what about Aliens?
g
|
|
nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 02:14am PT
|
don't ask the tough questions, Gene. It just gets ugly.
Aliens. There's no proof! err....
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 05:48am PT
|
Of course you already know about the Mormon stealth group that's been converting and saving dead aliens for decades.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 09:41am PT
|
Gene,
You have asked a very good deep question. I'm busy at the moment but I will get back to your question as soon as I can.
I ponder these things too. I do not know it all for sure, but the Good Book does address what this all ultimately means.
Cooper, the Navy guy who knew so much about the UFO/Alien phenomenon and the Government cover-up talked about this and had info regarding this very question, before he was shot dead.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 01:11pm PT
|
To outline the question that Gene asked, because it is so important and so very deep, it really has to be framed and answered on a multi-level approach.
If we assume/think/know that UFOs/Aliens(or whatever they are) are a real physical phenomenon, (yes, I'm fully aware that some can not get past this hurdle, but just go with it for now ...), then what does this mean for, and in regards to?:
1. Society?
2. World Culture?
3. Faith and Religion?
 especially Christians and Christianity (what I am familiar with)
Is there Salvation for all life, and is Salvation for all life necessary?
4. Governments?
5. Military Defense?
6. Science and Technology?
especially Evolution
7. Each of us on a personal level?
Is the Brooking's Report regarding UFOs/Aliens/ET Intelligent Life done at the request and given to NASA in the 60's, correct in their conclusions?
I do not think the Brookings Report conclusions are correct.
Much more later. These are deep questions.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 04:38pm PT
|
They're more hypothetical / intellectual questions than deep ones, as the 'phenomena' are just that, there is no public, peer-reviewed evidence of any kind which even suggests aliens have ever visited the Earth.
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 05:42pm PT
|
Klimmer, When I was a kid I lived at RAF Woodbridge in England when the Rendlesham Forest/UFO thing went down.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 06:25pm PT
|
OTEASTD,
The Rendlesham Forest/UFO incident is one of the most documented and eye-witnessed events in UFO history, almost as famous as the Roswell Crash. I've seen the story related in the DVD "Out of the Blue." Amazing eye-witness testimony.
Just try telling these military men and officers that they didn't see, nor touch what they indeed did see and touch. Debunkers are weak, non-intellectuals and chicken-dung. These men have nothing to gain by making any of this up. In fact disclosing has only brought them problems, but now their consciences are clear. And now we know the truth.
It moved through the forest, then landed, and they walked up to it and some of them even touched it, the one officer made a sketch of it and made a sketch of the writing in a language not of this world that was on the electrostatically charged and multi-colored shimmering fuseluge. Then it just took-off. He shows those notes and drawings in the notebook that he carried with him.
They filed their military reports, and were all debriefed. And then were basically told (threatened) never to talk about it again. Way to go Uncle Sam. Brave souls all of them, for those who have come forward to speak publically regarding the incident. Some haven't, they are too scared or still too upset by the encounter. The military has all their filed reports.
It's real.
Too many witnesses have come forward of high standing, all honest, and respectable, even our National Heros involved with the Space Program. Too many have come forward and have told the truth. You can't put this Genie back in the bottle. The truth is known and its out and its not ever going to go back in. Sightings are increasing not decreasing. Those who denie it have their heads buried far, far into the sand.
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 06:40pm PT
|
I don't know one way or another, but it was a pretty big friggen deal (especially for a certain eleven year old boy) on the base. Me and my friends definately spent a lot of time conducting our own investigation. Our results were inconclusive.
In my adult life I met a guy who was a retired colonel who (he said) had been involved, he swore it was real.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 06:44pm PT
|
Very cool story and experience, thanks for sharing it.
:-))
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 07:22pm PT
|
Again, zero evidence - all just heresay and popular myth self-referencing and recirculated again and again on the Internet like so much plastic floatsam in the North Pacific Gyre.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
|
But for some real news on the state-of-the-art [near] space travel:
X-51 Waverider Makes Historic Ramjet-Powered Hypersonic Flight
ScienceDaily (May 27, 2010) —
An X-51A Waverider flight-test vehicle successfully made the longest supersonic combustion ramjet-powered hypersonic flight May 26 off the southern California Pacific coast.
The more than 200 second burn by the X-51's Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne-built air breathing scramjet engine accelerated the vehicle to Mach 5. The previous longest scramjet burn in a flight test was 12 seconds in a NASA X-43.
Air Force officials called the test, the first of four planned, an unqualified success. The flight is considered the first use of a practical hydrocarbon fueled scramjet in flight.
"We are ecstatic to have accomplished most of our test points on the X-51A's very first hypersonic mission," said Charlie Brink, a X-51A program manager with the Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. "We equate this leap in engine technology as equivalent to the post-World War II jump from propeller-driven aircraft to jet engines."
The X-51 launched at about 10 a.m. from here, carried under the left wing of an Air Force Flight Test Center B-52 Stratofortress. Then, flying at 50,000 feet over the Point Mugu Naval Air Warfare Center Sea Range, it was released. Four seconds later an Army Tactical Missile solid rocket booster accelerated the X-51 to about Mach 4.8 mach before it and a connecting interstage were jettisoned. The launch and separation were normal, Mr. Brink said.
Four X-51A cruisers have been built for the Air Force and the (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) by industry partners Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne and Boeing. Air Force officials intend to fly the three remaining X-51A flight test vehicles this fall, Mr. Brink said.
Air Force officials currently plan to fly each on virtually identical flight profiles, building knowledge from each successive flight.
Hypersonic flight, normally defined as beginning at Mach 5, five times speed of sound, presents unique technical challenges with heat and pressure, which make conventional turbine engines impractical. Program officials said producing thrust with a scramjet has been compared to lighting a match in a hurricane and keeping it burning.
"This first flight was the culmination of a six-year effort by a small, but very talented AFRL, DARPA and industry development team," Mr. Brink said. "Now we will go back and really scrutinize our data. No test is perfect, and I'm sure we will find anomalies that we will need to address before the next flight. But anyone will tell you that we learn just as much, if not more, when we encounter a glitch."
Mr. Brink noted while development of the X-51A's engine and the test program are complex, controlling costs has been a key objective. The team has incorporated or adapted existing proven technologies and elected from the outset not to build recovery systems in the flight test vehicles, in an effort to control costs and focus funding on the vehicle's fuel-cooled scramjet engine.
Mr. Brink said he believes the X-51A program will provide knowledge required to develop the game changing technologies needed for future access to space and hypersonic weapon applications.
|
|
dustonian
climber
RRG
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 07:33pm PT
|
A delusion, in everyday language, is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception. Psychiatry defines the term more specifically as a belief that is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process). As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, dogma, stupidity, apperception, illusion, or other effects of perception.
Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness, although they are not tied to any particular disease and have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states (both physical and mental). However, they are of particular diagnostic importance in psychotic disorders and particularly in schizophrenia, paraphrenia, manic episodes of bipolar disorder, and psychotic depression.
Psychiatric definition
Although non-specific concepts of madness have been around for several thousand years, the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his 1917 book General Psychopathology. These criteria are:
* certainty (held with absolute conviction)
* incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
* impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)
These criteria still continue in modern psychiatric diagnosis. The most recent Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines a delusion as:
A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everybody else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 09:31pm PT
|
People say all sorts of things. People perceive and misperceive all sorts of things. Aliens, ghosts, gods, devils, angels, sasquatches, nessies, past lives, esp, telepathy, teleportation, faith healing, psychic surgery, alchemy, antigravity, perpetual motion, etc. - you name it and there's an relentless cult of 'sworn eyewitnesses' for each. But set up a booth in times square or the capital mall, turn on the cameras, and ask anyone to walk up and produce hard evidence of any of it in front of a the gathered crowd, cameras, and a panel of a variety of scientists. Nada.
None of it exists.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
May 27, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
|
"None of it exists."
Only according to you .....
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2010 - 10:53pm PT
|
HJ,
Prove that Shoemaker-Levy slammed into Jupiter.
All we have are remote sensing images and the associated data, and beyond that eye-witnesses. It could have been all faked right?
You probably didn't observe it directly when it happened. Yet, you are more than likely able to accept the fact that it happened. Based on these evidences and eye-witness testimonies.
That particular event was a one time event never to be repeated again exactly the same exact way.
Had we not discovered the comet Shoemaker-Levy prior to it breaking apart and slamming into Jupiter, good chance we would have missed the entire show. We may have seen something slam into Jupiter, but then not known fully well exactly what had we seen before the big event.
So, you are more than likely able to accept the event of Shoemaker-Levy with all the images, data, and all the eyewitnesses, but when it comes to eyewitnesses and remote sensing images, RADAR signatures, and data of UFOs/Aliens you have the knee-jerk reaction, I'm not buying it, it is all fake, made-up, or make-believe.
In some government released UFO reports these kinds of evidences are detailed and released.
Why the double standard?
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 28, 2010 - 04:04am PT
|
Prove that Shoemaker-Levy slammed into Jupiter.
Pretty much says it all - to a conspiracy nut there are no 'facts' because all statements, observations, and evidence are inherently of equal veracity and dubiousness. All sources are at once equally authoritative and suspect. With a mindset (dare I say, logic) where you can't discriminate right from wrong, black from white, true from false, and up from down nothing is real, certain, and there are essentially no facts, only beliefs - i.e. you can believe anything you want and all beliefs and realities are equal. Two plus two equals whatever you'd like it to in such a personal and subjective Wonderland.
In the end it's all just religiously equivalence. I think that people with these outlooks just can't stop themselves from projecting meaninglessness, mundaneness, inadequacy, boredom, oppression, innanity, and fear onto this planet and their own lives. Somehow life in the here and now and all it offers simply isn't enough - they crave and need more: superior entities, superior realms, and probably most important, superior possibilities for themselves in some superior beyond. The list of creatures, powers, and devices I posted above are just shared group symbols of a deep longing for such possibilities.
Who knows - maybe some people self-imposed an association of corporeal life with a sense of primitive groveling that they feel should be quite beneath us. I personally find such perspectives and outlooks on life sad if not depressing because they represent a lack of appreciation of what we are offered every day we live on this majestic orb. In fact, I rope up every chance I get just for a shot at that primitive groveling.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2010 - 09:54am PT
|
Can I be the first one to say, "Huh?"
Man get to the point.
I'm sure you realize that I know that S-L slamming into Jupiter is real. I was making a very clear point in regards to how you pick and choose what evidence you will accept as real.
The videos just above are actual NASA Space Shutle footage, and even Mission Control was mentioning all the goings on. And you can clearly see the UFOs go behind tether. They knew how far away tether was. From that you can estimate the size of those things. They are massive, fast, and can blink out at will. The light they were emanating was even throbing or pulsing at times as can be clearly seen.
This video shows that space is teaming with UFOs surrounding Earth. Remember, they where filming in UV and captured all these goings on.
Perhaps here on Earth people should be capturing video in UV and we would see a lot more activity than we already do know about.
But I'm just gonna make a wild guess. To you it is all faked, not real, a spoof, just delusional astronauts and mission control technicians right?
Edit:
Corrected a misspelled word . . .
Because MB, the spelling police of ST pointed it out. I have always admitted that "yes, sometimes my spelling sucks." Such is life. Didn't realize that ST was only accepting and requiring final peer reviewed copies and type-set for publication now. Give me a break.
I don't have any personal need or desire to point out everyone's spelling errors or grammatical errors, and we all know there are plenty here on ST. It is a forum, not a publication or journal. I think a little tolerance is required.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!