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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Mar 11, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
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Bushy that one was really funny:)
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Mar 12, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
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He's not trolling (Largo).
You just can't understand his views and conclusions due to your inexperience in the subject matter.
Awww..come on, Werner. He is a writer. When I talk geology, I try to make it simple, so you guys can understand things that in reality can be quite complicated. The very basics aren't difficult to understand.
Largo has been trolling us. For years. If he wanted to explain everything about his position and methods, it would have cut a good two years of arguing from this thread.
I remember a post where he actually boasted about this.
I'm out the door. Headed for a few weeks in Utah. I've always wanted to check out Dark Canyon, but it is really remote.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mar 12, 2016 - 03:56pm PT
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Any post here that's more than a few paragraphs long may make the eyes glaze over. Perhaps supply links instead for those who are interested.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Mar 13, 2016 - 11:33am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Somebody get a net!
I don't smoke weed anymore but the good Reverend Gayfocus needs to burn one now and then.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Mar 13, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
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Largo is the holdout, who confounds us with nonsensical stuff. He is a writer. If he wanted to communicate better, he could. Unfortunately, he acts like he has some secret key that he won't share with us.
Nice, one Base. That's as cogent a statement about Largo as I've seen posted on this thread. I haven't participated much lately, but I've always thought that this thread is at its best when Largo hasn't posted for a while. After Largo posts, there's a bunch of boring posts about WTF the discursive mind is and such...ZZzzz.
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cintune
climber
Ollin Arageed Space
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Mar 13, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
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Nagarjuna might just as well not say anything then, eh?
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cintune
climber
Ollin Arageed Space
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Mar 13, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
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Nice work if you can get it.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 13, 2016 - 07:34pm PT
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maybe you could provide a synopsis of your references, Lovegasoline, since you've obviously read through them...
I have not, but I suspect you are trying to make a point. Perhaps you could in a more concise manner.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mar 13, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
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Suffering? What suffering? Suffering and not suffering and not not suffering are all hallucinations
Damn convincing ones, Art.
Why the fascination with this character? Do you admire him?
I am a singulatarian, and here is my object of adoration:
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 15, 2016 - 11:01am PT
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Lovegas:
You’ve dampened the conversation with rigorous but iconoclastic arguments. Apparently no one is sure how to respond equally. (But, thanks!) Nagarjuna was an excellent philosopher.
BTW, Base (seriously), what are the problems with solipsism or nihilism? You seem to be saying those notions are undeniably wrong or wrong-headed. But, why? If you be a scientist, shouldn’t you allow the data to do the talking—or reason lead to conclusions—no matter what? What’s wrong-headed about not holding any particular value dear, or not demanding incontrovertible sureties? Is there something intrinsically wrong (in your mind) with those notions?
I’m taking a break from end-of-quarter grading. This part of the job seems to be inescapably depressing for me. There are always teams of students that perform poorly in their final reports, and I stew over what the problems are and why I can’t do better as their teacher. The possible reasons are many.
▪ I’m a poor teacher. They like me a lot even though I am tough on them—but what’s “liking” have to do with it? If they aren’t learning, it’s my fault.
▪ Many students just aren’t engaged. They don’t care. It’s not their subject. They don’t “suit up and show up.” They don’t do the work.
▪ They have poor social skills with others. They can’t team. A few shirkers spoil the efforts of the bunch.
▪ Some of them just don’t or can’t get the subject material, particularly those who require neat and solid answers. They expect there is a right and wrong, a correct and incorrect. They can tolerate uncertainty, but they can’t tolerate ambiguity—certainly not radical ambiguity (e.g., as when markets first start to coalesce).
▪ They expect or want the opportunity to be creative, and they think they can skip through data-collection and analyses without problem.
▪ They may suspect that there’s nothing there, there. (The theories are just that—theories.) Indeed, I won’t disabuse them of this idea, but as managers and leaders (potentially), they’ll need to provide direction, understanding, and means of coordination and integration. They will have roles to fulfill. In attempting analyses of real-world competitive situations, they come to see how messy everything is. They can’t find the data they want, the data won’t dovetail neatly, and they find that there are innumerable decisions to just about everything in a research study that anyone would feel woefully unprepared to make.
▪ Many things just can’t be articulated easily, quickly, succinctly, and finally.
▪ Most students can’t connect the dots. They see individual problems / issues, but they can’t knit them together to get a broader view.
The current concerns that I have about me and my course (and its achievements) look somewhat like the complaints to Largo, maybe myself, PSP, Lovesgas, and maybe some others have put forward here. “Why can’t I get it,” or “Why can’t you explain it to me properly, quickly, succinctly,” or “You’re not saying it in a way I can understand” all strike me as similar criticisms to the ones I sense between me and my students.
Alas, the two situations seem to come down to the same issues: (i) You gotta do the work. (ii) You gotta go through preliminary examinations, (iii) you gotta learn algebra before you take on calculus, (iv) you gotta look for yourself, (v) you have to quit relying upon what others tell you, (vi) you have to make a commitment, (vii) you have to really care, (viiI) you have to put things together to see the big picture, (ix) you have to learn how to tolerate ambiguity, (x) you have to have the karma, (xi) you have to do *something* at the end of the day, even though you don’t know what to do. Ad nauseum.
I’m burning off steam here, as you can see. I feel a little sad. I took some time off from the grading to get away and feel a little better, and I read through the thread from where I last made an entry. I thought I saw some similarities between what people were complaining about and my own situation with my students. I’m not sure I’m feeling any better for any of it. (I have to say though that I occasionally run into a report that really sings, and then I’m elated! Yippee.)
Back to it.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Mar 15, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
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Ah yes, the paper grading blues. I know them well. It hurts to see students making a mush of ideas and methods that are important to you and your discipline. So perhaps you aren't as nihilistic as you insinuate and others seem to think?
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Mar 15, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
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Nice post Mike! Very honest.
"Don't know mind" is difficult to propose as a way to look at things no less to argue about. and then when "emptiness" gets added to the mix it is almost hopeless as a discursive exercise. Hence that is why we have meditation; rather than explaining it you just experience it. Mind before thinking with no attachment to concepts with no agenda. easily said harder to do.
Why do that? When you unattach from "I am right and you are wrong" you arrive at peace instantly.
With no agenda then how will you do your laundry? Just do it! and after that "just do" something else with no attachment. And if you can't seem to "just do it" note that and keep working on it.
I have to go back to Just Work.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Mar 15, 2016 - 01:40pm PT
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I thought this was cute...
and this one, thread appropriate, pretty funny...
A rabbi and a priest are walking by a playground.
The priest goes to the rabbi: You want to screw some kids?
And the rabbi says, Out a what?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mar 15, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
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Good comments, PSP. Where the rub seems to come is when JL hints that empty awareness is somehow connected to virtual particles having no physical extent or energy not being a thing or the mysterious fields of physics somehow reflecting no-thingness , or whatever. I suppose it's natural for someone who is a meditator with a philosophy background to indulge in these metaphysical musings. Especially when the CarPool encourages it.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 15, 2016 - 10:39pm PT
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why be depressed about the thread?
just because y'all will probably never master physics isn't a reason for despair, I don't expect that you would make the time to do the work...
I'm not only happy to attempt to describe it, but interested in what the reactions will be, very different from what I would normally encounter. And since most of you are lacking the mathematical skills, it is doubly challenging to describe it in the imprecise language we share.
I don't expect you to get an A+ on the test because there isn't going to be a test... and if you aren't interested, well, that's probably as much a reflection on me as it is on you...
good luck grading...
it will be over soon and you'll start another turn on the wheel.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Mar 16, 2016 - 09:24am PT
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Doing the work. Yes, but where is the motivation? Most of the time our civilized lives run in smooth channels with many distractions. It is instructive that people who seek meditation often have had crises that knocked them out of that pleasant Eden.
To make a serious study of math and or physics also requires motivation, but usually experienced as a pull rather than a push.
My father-in-law spent his early life studying physics. Then in WWII he learned, as he put it, “To make important decisions based on incomplete and often contradictory information.” That WWII experience helped him later when he was directing parts of the space program and dealing with human, political, and other practical elements in addition to the science.
Uncertainty and ambiguity are inevitable but their significance in our daily lives depends on our circumstances and how they may have affected us in our past.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 16, 2016 - 09:27am PT
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This is why lurking on ST is so worthwhile.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 16, 2016 - 09:28am PT
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We all already are experts in Physics here!!!
If we fall we we go down.
If we fall far enough and hit hard enough we could and may be toast.
If we drive 100mph into telephone pole without seat belt we go thru windshield .....
:-)
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