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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 15, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
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Sad news indeed. My condolences to family and friends.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 15, 2012 - 10:23pm PT
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In only another 3,866 posts, or something like that, this thread will be closing in on Big Mike's. Maybe some rebranding? A Charles Dickens style strategy?
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Nov 15, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
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Wilmott put up the Arch-5.8 and Bloody Mary-5.9 at Pokomoonshine in the Adirondacks just south of Montreal. These are both great lines. Poko is like a little brother of the Chief and shares some of the pioneers.
Imagine what John Turner would have done if unleashed at the Chief during his North American years!
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 16, 2012 - 12:04am PT
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Anders, you stopped posting here!! That is the only reason I started my thread! I was trying to bump it for awhile but Bmac asked me not to pollute your fine thread so I stopped. Tell us more stories sir!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 18, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
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So today we (Tricouni and I) had the pleasure of meeting and interviewing a person who participated in the first recorded (but possibly not the first) climb at Squamish. He had some very helpful information and amazing stories. The climb wasn't done when it was thought to have been done, took place over three days, involved a half-bivouac, and was from a base at the Squamish Hotel. Any guesses?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 18, 2012 - 10:04pm PT
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I'm probably wrong but North Gulley?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 18, 2012 - 10:33pm PT
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Two pieces of string walk into a bar and the bartender looks at them suspiciously. He says "Sorry, boys, we don't serve your kind here." So the pieces of string walk out again.
They're sitting in the gutter outside and feeling really thirsty when one piece of string says "Hey! I've got an idea to get me into the bar."
So he starts twisting and turning, wriggling this way and that, pulling out a few threads here and there. His mate's looking at him and thinks he's gone completely nuts.
Then the piece of string walks back into the bar. The bartender looks at him a little suspiciously again and says "Here, you're not a bit of string, are you?"
The piece of string replies "No, I'm a frayed knot."
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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 18, 2012 - 10:58pm PT
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Fantastic thread Anders,I love the historical perspective and it's great to find out a little about the people I read about in the guide books. Great work!
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Nov 18, 2012 - 11:41pm PT
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No, the answer isn't Howie Rode. But Howie is indeed a fantastic Coast Mtns pioneer and he's still super-lucid. And a super-pleasant, friendly guy, as well. He still gets out a fair bit in Lynn Headwaters park.
His 1950 ascent of Ratney (with John Dudra) has been called the hardest technical lead in the mountains of SW BC up to that time.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 19, 2012 - 12:23am PT
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Not my pun - Simon's. And no, the person we met today wasn't Howie Rode, although he's on the list of people to talk with about background things about the start of technical climbing around here in the 1950s.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 19, 2012 - 12:42am PT
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I know who but it would be cheating, right Anders?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 19, 2012 - 01:15am PT
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The first recorded climb at Squamish was South Gully, which it appears was done in spring 1958, not 1957. We met Hank Mather today.
There is a reliable report of climbing at Squamish by a named person (a 'real' climber) in 1955 or 1956. I've talked with him, and have some idea as to what he might have done.
There are at least three stories of "climbing" at Squamish in the late 1940s to mid 1950s, possibly none of which can now be verified. Two, including that of the Rae brothers, seem more of a "local boys gone scrambling on those cliffs" nature than true climbing. The third story involves the discovery of fixed pitons of unsure origin in the late 1950s or early 1960s. If anyone did any true climbing at Squamish pre-1956, though, it created little if any legacy.
There is the fascinating question as to when climbers - and there were some climbers in Vancouver in the 1930s with ropes and pitons - started to think of Squamish as a possible area for rockclimbing per se. They were doing some things with ropes even on Grouse, and had had contact with the Sierra Club climbers. And certainly passed through Squamish.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 19, 2012 - 01:48am PT
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There may have been any number of young men in Squamish in the 1950s who, inspired by "The Ascent of Everest", local traditions and setting, a bit more money and time, and the usual adolescent male motives, tried 'climbing'. With their mother's clotheslines, or a rope borrowed from work, caulk boots, and so on. Just the way so many climbers started out, including many of us. (Ask me sometime about a "rappel" with 1/4" yellow polypropylene, at Levette Lake.) Plus they had a somewhat outdoor-oriented culture, where people not only cut trees, hunted, and fished, but also had things like Garibaldi Park and its history, and the Brandvold's Diamond Head Lodge. It would surprising if a few people hadn't experimented in climbing, but whatever they did seems not to have led to any consequences.
For example, Sir Edmund Hillary gave a talk on the climb in Vancouver in March 1954, and some students from the high school did a trip by boat to see it. What might that have inspired?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 19, 2012 - 01:51am PT
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I am loving the revival! Nice work Anders! Tami has an excellent question Bruce! I would love to hear the answer!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 19, 2012 - 01:56am PT
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Anders sent me an email asking about Don Gordon after meeting Hank Mather. After I told Don about my recent trip to Squamish he said he did some of the first "real climbs" at Squamish back in the fifties. I'm not sure exactly what he meant by that but I bet Anders could sleuth out the details if I can hook him up with "Claunch". It would make some interesting history.
And instead of saying yur gunna die I will just say Yer Light.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 19, 2012 - 01:57am PT
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If the Rae brothers did Astrologger, I'll agree to their building a gondola there.
Let's not forget that people from what is now the Squamish Nation were all over the Chief for food gathering, ceremonial, recreational and other purposes long before any of us showed up. They had a substantial, settled population. It may not now be possible to do more than observe that they did some respectable climbing, not just on the Chief but in the mountains.
Bruce's tale of climbing with his brothers doesn't seem much different from whatever it is that the later white settlers of Squamish did in the early 1950s. The only real difference being that there is primary evidence and it is remembered.
And I put 'real' climber in quotes for the good reason that there are different ways of defining what you mean by climbing, mostly subjective. Not for me to decide.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 19, 2012 - 02:29am PT
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This is cool. The south gulley is the earliest classic eh? Have to put that one on the list. Anyone done it?
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Nov 19, 2012 - 09:38am PT
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I climbed half of the south gulley once, then retreated. There's a brand new fixed line in there to help get haul bags up the crux.
EDIT; I meant the south south gully, oops
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MH2
climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 11:30am PT
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Good to see this thread, again.
Somewhat off the Squamish track, but speaking of physical evidence, and maybe it leads back to Squamish, has anyone seen one of these markers, or know who P. Brown is?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 19, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
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That sort of looks like a survey tag, although it'd be unusual to attach one to a tree/stump. As it's near the Camel, perhaps something to do with the old watershed boundaries?
As for logs being sent down along Olesen Creek, it seems possible. There was logging in upper Olesen Creek, before World War II if not earlier, and if you hike to the third (fourth) summit and Slhanay, you see evidence of it - big stumps, old cables and so on. (The logging in 1991-92, on the upper southeast side of the valley, was done with helicopters.) FWIW, there doesn't seem to be any physical evidence in Olesen Creek of old flumes, or of logs being skidded down. Even after 60 or 80 years there'd be something - loggers very rarely cleaned up after themselves. Maybe the Ministry of Forests office has some information?
The origins of the trail up Olesen Creek are an interesting question, although there was recorded hiking on the Chief from at least the 1930s, probably much earlier.
Considering the amount of rockfall and debris flow in the gullys at Squamish, I doubt I'd ever trust a "fixed" rope in one of them.
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