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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Sep 13, 2009 - 11:36pm PT
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DEATH PANEL!!!!!1111666
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 13, 2009 - 11:40pm PT
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Remember when you go to the fridge and there's nothing in it you have to go to the market!
But if you don't have money your S.O.L.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 13, 2009 - 11:47pm PT
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As soon as the science of psychology and sociology emerged (barely) from their dark ages, they have been usurped in the service of manipulating people and making them believe lies. Naturally politics and business are the main consumers of bought and paid for consensus. So even the grassroots protesters against Obamacare are basically astroturfers because they come misinformed and protesting things that are not on even on the table.
How else to explain how a bunch of old people on medicare and social security could get up in arms protesting potential government health care. I wish they could pass out a list at these tea bagger parties so the protesters could all opt-out of social security and medicare. Even give them all the money they put in the system back minus what they have already consumed.
It's a joke that these average american red state types can be inflamed to get upset about things they don't understand or that were never real, all in service of big business and the uber-rich, the only real recipients of GOP party policies! It's like begging country music stars to have sex with your wife because they are more worthy.
Folks with intelligence will recognize that the hysteria is misdirected and be embarrassed to be GOP except if they have money they fear will be taxed or if their concept of religion is based not on Love and Forgiveness but rather controlling the sins of other people.
The masses can be sold with Karl Rove tricks but the effect is likely to be short lived.
Peace
Karl
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 13, 2009 - 11:49pm PT
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Well said Karl.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Sep 13, 2009 - 11:57pm PT
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^^^^^^^^
C'mon pink rainbow crew...... let's get the Obama DEATH PANEL going and start the purge of defectives.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Sep 14, 2009 - 12:16am PT
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"How else to explain how a bunch of old people on medicare and social security could get up in arms protesting potential government health care."
It's very simple, and at the root of most of the wrath and fear over the shifts that are taking place in our society: that is, a fundamental terror of change. Older folks on social security and Medicare are vulnerable for many reasons, especially because the Grim Reaper is swinging their way. Any change to the delicate balance of what they imagine is keeping them safe is perforce coming from an "enemy."
It's not that Obama care is "bad," rather that any change is bad, simply because it alters the familiar lay of things. Many abused wives don't leave horrible relationships simply becase the option of being out there alone is too frightning.
These are deep and unconscious fears that are being exposed, so in that sense we might have some little compassion for these folks. It has almost nothing to do with any "issues," and everything to do with that terror.
JL
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 14, 2009 - 12:20am PT
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Yes, nothing rules like fear
Climbers at least, should have a better handle of living from fear but........
Let's hope we wake up before the fearmongers get back in office
Peace
Karl
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 14, 2009 - 12:59am PT
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Deep and unconscious fears? The human mind is so very complex, such an analysis is naive and superficial. Maybe "catchy" for liberal arguments, trendy at best, but REALLY uneducated and silly to use when there is so much at stake. The arguments against O'Bama's plan aren't racist or based in any subconscious fears, they're about improving on the best system in the world, and NOT changing it into a less adequate one.
By the way,on a friendly note, there's really no such thing as an "unconscious fear." That would mean either the fear has been knocked out cold, like by Mike Tyson, or the person has lost consciousness and is scared.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 14, 2009 - 01:08am PT
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Gobee, don't be so disingenuous. I'm sure you knew he meant "subconscious fear".
As for your statement about nothing in the frig. Then why is there always money for war? And why don't people like you complain about all the money spent on war?
Bush lowered taxes and increased spending. Hmm, did he empty the frig, the freezer, and the pantry and the Gobees of the country did nothing?
Bah.. you need to get a clue.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 14, 2009 - 01:18am PT
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Moosie, who's being disingenious? Sarcasm is more like it. Hello?
If you don't know the talk, don't do the walk.
Why is there always money for war? To protect you, that's why.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 14, 2009 - 01:27am PT
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If there is no money to put food in the frig, then you starve. So what are you protecting?
Oh, I see. there is money for things you value, but not for things you don't. Glad we got that figured out. You don't give a rats ass if anyone has healthcare, unless they can afford it. You got your ass covered, so screw everyone else. Except we all pay for wars, even wars based on false premises.
You want me to chip in for wars that supposedly benefit us all.
I want you to chip in for healthcare that would also benefit us all.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 14, 2009 - 01:46am PT
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I value health care for EVERYONE, there is no one right now who can't get health care. People with poverty level incomes can get medicaid, go to clinics, find doctors who are compassionate and charge less to those who pay cash. Health care and medicine are evolving. Right now, costs are rising for particular reasons and those causes should be addressed. Most people don't know all the "behind-the-scenes" situations effecting health care.
For example,when an illegal alien goes to the emergency room, by law,if it is serious, they have to be treated. In turn, the hospital must notify the federal government of the situation and if the feds decide to deport the person, that's that. But,the feds never decide to deport the people, which,by law,means they become eligible for medicare for life, no matter how much any further treatments might cost, in many cases, even millions of dollars a year. Transplants, life-long treatments, chemotherapy, everything. Americans can not qualify for the same benefits. Illegal aliens become a type of citizen, so to say illegals won't be covered is a lie. They become covered by the Feds not deporting them and classifying them illegal. So, wouldn't denying these services cut costs? Like by billions? There is so much hidden in this proposed health plan that most people have no idea about. If you speak to an attorney for any hospital, they can explain the illegal situation to you. I don't know why no one hears about this situation. Media bias perhaps?
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apogee
climber
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Sep 14, 2009 - 01:46am PT
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Somebody asked this earlier today, and I still see no response:
What is the positive legacy of Shrub's 8 years in office? How did your life directly, tangibly improve as a result of his tenure?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 14, 2009 - 01:49am PT
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" there is no one right now who can't get health care."
You have most definitely not been paying attention.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 14, 2009 - 01:59am PT
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Gobee, I apologize for my angry outbursts.
Serious question.
A recent study found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses. Of those who filed for bankruptcy, nearly 80 percent had health insurance.9 ( there were 1.78 million bankruptcies filed in 2005 )
According to another published article, about 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs.
Other countries manage to provide very good health care for all their citizens, and no one goes bankrupt over healthcare.
So do you care that so many people, including many climbers, go bankrupt each year because of health care cost, even those who have insurance?
Or do you just ignore the threads on the taco where we raise money for climbers with healthcare problems?
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jstan
climber
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Sep 14, 2009 - 02:04am PT
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A day or two ago the LA Times reported on a person who had been laid off, lost his health insurance, had medical bills to pay and therefore was unable to get insurance. He is trying to persuade the hospital to give him the same discount insurance companies get. For the absurdly big bills this discount can drop a bill down from many tens of thousand down to maybe ten thousand.
The playing field is grossly out of level and even in times of high unemployment people seem inclined to tolerate it. I guess no one currently with a job thinks the axe will fall on them.
But I read that some 27% of Californians have substantial medical debt.
Anytime you absolutely cannot do without the service of a corporation selling insurance, what do you suppose happens to the cost of that insurance?
"What the market will bear."
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 14, 2009 - 02:05am PT
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It's to late and I've helped friends out. But most climbers, Chose to Climb?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 14, 2009 - 02:18am PT
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Most climbers chose to climb?...... huh?
Thats your excuse? People go bankrupt every year even though they have health insurance, and all you can say is.. "most climbers chose to climb". You do know that We aren't always talking about climbing injuries.
Dude, for a self professed Christian, you are heartless and woefully ignorant of the facts.
Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.
I guess we should add, " but not if he chooses to climb".
Edit to add:
"For example,when an illegal alien goes to the emergency room, by law,if it is serious, they have to be treated. In turn, the hospital must notify the federal government of the situation and if the feds decide to deport the person, that's that. But,the feds never decide to deport the people, which,by law,means they become eligible for medicare for life, no matter how much any further treatments might cost, in many cases, even millions of dollars a year. Transplants, life-long treatments, chemotherapy, everything. Americans can not qualify for the same benefits. Illegal aliens become a type of citizen, so to say illegals won't be covered is a lie. They become covered by the Feds not deporting them and classifying them illegal. So, wouldn't denying these services cut costs? Like by billions? There is so much hidden in this proposed health plan that most people have no idea about. If you speak to an attorney for any hospital, they can explain the illegal situation to you. I don't know why no one hears about this situation. Media bias perhaps?"
Based on this argument, we are already paying for illegal aliens, therefore this is not an argument that should stop us from paying for everyone else, ie, national healthcare, as illegal aliens would not raise the cost, since we are already paying for them.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Sep 14, 2009 - 03:03am PT
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The communist advisers helping our new President teach that everything changes, and that what is right or wrong, good or bad, changes. Sometimes 180 degrees. Its inevitable
Accept his new reality.
Change you can believe in!
Not!
Sorry dude. We've been thumping these commie ideals around the world for a hundred years. That you're in my cities now just makes
it easier to stop you again.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sep 14, 2009 - 03:05am PT
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Sure hope I get #10,000 before I leave for the FaceLift. 299 to go, divided by four days = 75 posts/day. It's looking good. My pwecious pwecious!
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