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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^ That's why you make the bigbucks Ed.
So science has proven that the way we are burning fossil fuels is detrimental to the ozone.
is science doing working on anything to adjust what's coming out of the tailpipe? Like changing the manner inwhich we burn it, or adding something to the gastank to negate what comes out the pipe? I don't know,I'm guessing. I just wondered if we're trying to fix the problem at the root, other than going in a whole different direction. Like solar, or wind or whatever.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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...the science is not a question of belief, it is a question of data and the organizing science, and where ever that leads is where a scientist will follow, even if that path wasn't what was expected.
^^ that is correct, but one must ask also; from wherest did the motiv come from to produce said science
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Thanks Blublocker. I checked my email but haven't received anything from you yet. I still have 6 books left out of my 10 book commitment so anyone else that wants to read an excellent presentation from somebody that's been on the other side feel free to pm me.
Look Ed, I wrote that post from memory in 15 minutes before I went to an open house-very good day I might add as it looks like at least we have 2 houses sold. I literally have a 2 foot pile of papers, most peer reviewed and some not, that I've downloaded and read at night. I'm not going to spend my night looking for the paper on a new treatment for the physical qualities of CO2. My wife is already complaining that I read these stupid papers until I fall asleep and don't pay enough attention to her. I think it was by a mathematician by the name of Johnson.
Anyway guys, people like Ed are very intelligent and see the world in depth at minute levels but they can't see the forest for the trees. They just lack smarts in other departments and incorrectly assume since they are surrounded by like minded people that they know all, see all, and the rest of the populace are blind idiots. Well, they're not and the range of intelligence of normal human beings is smaller than imagined. Different peoples intelligence are just manifested in different ways. Ed and Chiloe are undoubtedly good guys and mean well but they just don't get that the game is up and they are beating a dead horse for miles it can never again give. Anyway that's my take.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Bruce
All right you caught me with my pants down, I jus wanted a free book.
But I did think that he pointed to some holes in the ozone hole conspiracy. lOL
But realiisticly I believe there can be more contributors to global warming than jus the burning of fuels. Like, the average air temperature going into an engine is 75 deg. and the exit temp. is
over 110. And the engine runs at around 160 deg. So without having any scientific credentials
I would still say these two functions are heating up the atmosphere, thus the waters of the oceans. And all the "things" that man has created that sit on top of the earths surface that act like radiant heaters. IE cars, trains, buildings, etc. these all store heat from the suns rays and radiat it back through the earth. Then there's water. The world has a finite amount of fresh water. What has man done with that? For one, since 1800 mans population went from 1bill to 7bill. Man is 3/4 water. That's a lot of water that is no longer in the earths system acting as a coolant. Instead it's in a mans body at 98deg. Another heater. Then there's all the other billions and billions of gallons were keeping separated from the ground in our toilets, and pipes, and swimming pools, etc. all warming! We're doing a lot of things that warm the planet. That's all I'm Say'in
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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The jet stream is wobbling because of the decrease in the temperature gradient between the North Pole and the equator.
This is another one. This could be caused by the recent huge sun flare activity we've been having. And the fact that we've (the earth) has been closer to the sun for the last 7 yrs than in a long tIme. Now we're moving away.
The climate is VERY sensitive and will continue to change. Everyday!
Let's continue to understand it and try to make provisions to keep it stable!
Cheers!!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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yeah chef,misinformation,i did not get it.
"Fundamental Redneck",that will get you somewhere.I think we are going to have a season up here for those.
Caught some nice truly native brookies lately?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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I built a fence, a deck, a climbing wall, and some other things around the house. I know for a fact someone who builds for a living could have done a better job and in less time. But I enjoyed the process and learned some things along the way. I also ask the honest opinion of every builder who sees my work so I can make potential improvements on my next project. It must suck to live in a world where your weak little ego can't handle being set straight by experts.
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dirtbag
climber
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^^^^only tin foil hat idiots do, rong^^^^^
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dirtbag
climber
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Your idea of a credible source is a John birch society opinion piece.
Hahahahahahaha.
I'm laughing at you.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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One gigantic problem Ed and others-you guys have absolutely no observationally verifiable validation of how all your microscopic bits of theoretical minutia fit into and interact in the tremendously complicated dynamic whole. No amount of jiggering with the models, scaring the public, fudging the data, or circle jerk reinforcement in the CAGW community can make up for this. The climate doesn't care nor conform to the phony science.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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The climate does react and "care" about man's activities.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mono- you would be well served to find graphs with other authors. Those guys are the Weiner's of the weather world. Everybody snickers and laughs about the public spectacle of them being caught with their pants down, so to speak
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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You had better start posting them, cuz you are going to keep seeing these every time you blame the sun or something.
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Cragar
Trad climber
MSLA - MT
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One gigantic problem Ed and others-you guys have absolutely no observationally verifiable validation of how all your microscopic bits of theoretical minutia fit into and interact in the tremendously complicated dynamic whole.
certainly not true, starting with the successful explanation, in 1896, of the temperature of the surface of the Earth.
We can go on from there if you wish... how would you like to start? I'd suggest starting with the highlights of climate science...
While it is complicated and dynamic, it is accessible via scientific observation and explainable with theory, including the fundamental theory which is entirely relevant to the explanations. That's what all those climate scientists have been doing for so long.
Your characterization seems to imply that the "microscopic bits of theoretical minutia" aren't relevant... but your gaff above is not about some side issue, you've completely misunderstood thermodynamics and have implied that all of electrodynamics and quantum mechanics are incorrect because applying them to this problem comes up with the "wrong" answer...
...unfortunately, the answer is what it is, rick, and it is supported by the observations. It is really such a simple thing, CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere are responsible for the planet's temperatures. Increase the concentration and increase the temperature. It really is that simple.
Thanks Ed. You remind me of someone who can 'get' the climbing in the Meadows with all the patience and correct deliberate moves you have made in this thread. Although, I don't know of any 60+ pitch route in the Meadows ;^)
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Ed, you know damn well i'm not challenging all of the basis of the current understanding of thermodynamics,electrodynamics, or quantum mechanics, just the characterizations ascribed to the mythical molecule.I may have incorrectly characterized from memory the gist of it, but there are physicists and mathematicians reevaluating this.The climate sensitivity to CO2 is steadily trending downward in reevaluations-that you cannot deny and have even stated so in the recent past. I think there is a new paper in Nature to this effect-something about reconstruction of past climate sensitivity to doubling of CO2, from empirical evidence, leads to a climate sensitivity of 0.8 C. Look it up.
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dirtbag
climber
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He really should stick to stuffing jackalopes.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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If all the industrialized countries reduced their CO2 emissions by 100% by 2050, then according to the IPCC last published climate sensitivity of 3C, we would avert by 2100 a temperature rise of 0.28C. Which rise of 0.28C, compared to the way average temperature increases, is equivalent to moving 10 miles south
Interesting comment someone made as a reply to that repub article.
Fire away.
How about efforts to keep the Yellowstone supervolcano from erupting? I recall reading that eons ago a volcano erupted in the Pacific northwest and deposited several feet of ash in Missouri.
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