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sempervirens
climber
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Jun 17, 2017 - 08:38pm PT
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If wild animals engage in homosexuality, could that be called unnatural?
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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Jun 17, 2017 - 09:20pm PT
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^^^^
What exactly....are wild animals?
Interested to hear how you've parsed things out
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sempervirens
climber
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Jun 17, 2017 - 09:31pm PT
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What exactly....are wild animals?
Animals that live without human assistance, non-domesticated animals. Do you have a dictionary?
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jun 17, 2017 - 09:42pm PT
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Virgin births, original sin, snakes that talk, Gods dead and resurrected, you only see these things as doubtless unreal.
You miss entirely the real meaning of these stories.
Do you think fiction, say Hamlet is untrue? I submit it as one of the truest, realistic things ever written. Not because it is historically accurate but because it so accurately articulates the human condition. Well the Bible with its snakes and virgin births does exactly the same.
If you're too buried in the scientific and mechanistic interpretation of what you suppose to be the real world, well, you're missing out on a true understanding of what it is to be a living being and I suggest a return to a solid liberal arts education.
But I fear most can't see beyond the illusion of a strangely myopic certainty that can only tell them what and never why.
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sempervirens
climber
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Jun 17, 2017 - 10:24pm PT
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But I fear most can't see beyond the illusion of a strangely myopic certainty that can only tell them what and never why.
Would you then also fear that most Christians have a strangely myopic certainty that the bible is truth?
Of course if they read the bible they might see that those who work on the Sabbath should not be put to death. (Exodus 35:2). And maybe the bible thumpers might read about stoning a bride who is not a virgin. Her virginity must be "proven" by displaying the matrimonial sheets. (Deuteronomy 22:21). Are those to be taken literally? Or do those passages give us the what and the why?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jun 17, 2017 - 10:32pm PT
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I'm sorry
I don't know why I'm always tweeking the nose's of the most respected around here? But
The idea that there was a socially up lifting point to writings used to subjugate people,
That allowed the making a hierarchy that let some exist with Zero moral compass, while insisting on the servitude of the masses, is a worthy frame-work to further civilization ?
Is a false construct .
On the other hand. . .
Given, the entire forced nature by overtaking the media, and jamming uncomfortable ideas down the collective's throats by bring ' The Gay' into our living rooms, and so, forcing the acceptance of the unacceptable has led to the reactive conservatism that is this, swinging of the social pendulum .
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sempervirens
climber
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Jun 17, 2017 - 11:06pm PT
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Given, the entire forced nature by overtaking the media, and jamming uncomfortable ideas down the collective's throats by bring ' The Gay' into our living rooms, and so, forcing the acceptance of the unacceptable has led to the reactive conservatism that is this, swinging of the social pendulum .
Are you sayin' the country has become more conservative because media has forced people to accept gays?
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Byran
climber
Half Dome Village
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Jun 18, 2017 - 12:18am PT
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Whatever it's moral status, homosexuality is anomalous because it is not evolutionarily advantageous in mammals. That itself doesn't make it "wrong" or even "bad." But it could be argued to be "unnatural" by one obvious interpretation of that term.
Besides choosing a same-sex partner, here are some other things that people do which are not evolutionarily advantageous.
-Using condoms
-Joining the priesthood
-Basejumping
-Becoming educated
I'm not saying getting a college degree is "wrong" or "bad", but it does statistically mean you will have fewer offspring. So everyone should just be aware that these people are unnatural.
But "unnatural," well, probably yes from an evolutionary point of view, certainly an evolutionary dead-end.
Well, we're 3.5 billion years into this evolution thing, w/ ~1.2 billion years of sexually reproducing life, and the homosexuals are still hanging on. But certainly the dead-end is fast approaching.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 18, 2017 - 01:05am PT
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I'm not saying getting a college degree is "wrong" or "bad", but it does statistically mean you will have fewer offspring.
It also means the offspring you have have a better survival rate, are more likely to have parental help during early adulthood, and it is more likely that those children will be college educated and statistically are more likely to help you in your old age.
But maybe we should all breed and die like salmon.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 18, 2017 - 01:11am PT
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Well, we're 3.5 billion years into this evolution thing, w/ ~1.2 billion years of sexually reproducing life, and the homosexuals are still hanging on. But certainly the dead-end is fast approaching.
More likely, the end will come from the pressures on the ecosystem from runaway population.
Which is, incidentally slowed by education. So maybe the best survival of the species will come from less reproductive sex.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 18, 2017 - 02:03am PT
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Besides choosing a same-sex partner, here are some other things that people do which are not evolutionarily advantageous.
Everything on your list is a chosen behavior, which is not the same as the anomaly of being homosexual. Remember that you're committed to this trait being genetically passed down, which does make it an evolutionary dead-end. Base-jumping as a behavior is not genetically passed down. Neither is being college-educated.
The vast majority of people engaging in the behaviors on your list end up breeding and passing along their genes before death. Thus, their behaviors (even if such behaviors ultimately kill them) are not evolutionary dead-ends.
By definition, being homosexual results in sexual behaviors that are an evolutionary dead-end.
Which is why it remains a tiny-percentage anomaly.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 18, 2017 - 05:22am PT
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"Of course, the left wants us to believe that (by Gary Gates estimates, which is probably the best research we have) about 3.5% of the population should be represented as "everywhere you look" and very disproportionately represented in all forms of media."
And about 2.2 billion people want you to believe a virgin woman had a baby....nothing unnatural there.
Been a while since any humans heard a snake talk?
Sorry the gist of the post when right over your head.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 18, 2017 - 06:36am PT
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The boob dufus always, wants to believe that a virgin impregnated by God is impossible ........
And then there was...... the American Indians who first encountered the white men human snakes with their fork tounges of lies ......
Don't bother replying as the reply is already obviously known .....
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 18, 2017 - 07:00am PT
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Werner...to much dumpster food over the years?
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Jun 18, 2017 - 07:29am PT
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Why does it matter where homosexuality fits in from an evolutionary viewpoint? Or if it's "natural."
The anti-gay parade are always looking to excuse their bias. People don't get to choose who they are attracted to, and apart from minors, they should be free to love whomever they choose. It's that simple.
Happy Father's Day!
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Jun 18, 2017 - 07:35am PT
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Liberte', Egalite', Fraternite'.
What does it matter to the good of civil society if a citizen is homosexual? It matters not a bit.
If one believes in the principle of liberty, the question isn't worth consideration.
Issues of character are far more important.
Barry Goldwater was once asked what he thought of gays in the military and he said, "Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since at least the time of Julius Caesar" and "You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight."
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 18, 2017 - 11:13am PT
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Sorry the gist of the post when right over your head.
Nah, I didn't miss it. I just refuse to acknowledge that your perspective is so much better.
Little quips like that image you posted are shallow, ridiculous caricatures. But that seems to be your level.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Jun 18, 2017 - 11:19am PT
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^^^Thank you.
Word of the Day - snarky.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 18, 2017 - 11:30am PT
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"Nah, I didn't miss it. I just refuse to acknowledge that your perspective is so much better."
Perspective and facts are two different things. When you are dealing with people who think Noah's Ark had every species on board, dinosaurs roamed the earth 6,000 years ago and that a virgin gave birth you have to keep it simple.
"There is no mystery surrounding dinosaurs if you accept the Bible’s totally different account of dinosaur history.
According to the Bible: Dinosaurs first existed around 6,000 years ago.3 God made the dinosaurs, along with the other land animals, on Day 6 of the Creation Week (Genesis 1:20–25, 31). Adam and Eve were also made on Day 6—so dinosaurs lived at the same time as people, not separated by eons of time."
I give it another ten posts on this thread before you blow a gasket.
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