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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 28, 2012 - 10:50pm PT
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81 firearms death per day in the US?
I bet more people are killed by texting drivers.
Of course Canada has one third the gun deaths as the US.
It is harder to hit people when you are shaking from the cold and all the moose get in the way!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 28, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
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Riley,
are you trying to say that a lot less people would die of handgun related shootings if handguns in America were not so easily available?
But it's not about less other people dying, you miss the point
It IS about ME, my right to defend myself as an American in equal measure of force
against any "perps"
And if THEY can get any weapon they want, then I NEED to be able to also.
To defend myself, and my loved ones of course.
Besides, and not as important, guns are just plain cool
Cool to own, the more the better, cool to clean, play with, aim and shoot
You see Riley, "freedom ain't free", it comes "with a price"
Now pull up a chair, and let me educate you on all the esoteric details of all my guns.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jul 28, 2012 - 10:54pm PT
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^You sound paranoid.
I have a couple guns, including a shotgun.
I haven't had to kill anyone yet, prolly never will, but I would.
However, it does not overwhelm or govern my life my life in any way, like so many I read about.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 28, 2012 - 11:39pm PT
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Must've been the gun's fault.
Surely they would have no problems if guns hadn't been invented yet,..
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jstan
climber
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Jul 29, 2012 - 12:31am PT
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When spears and blades were the primary offensive weapon the Roman square with shields and short thrusting swords ruled the day. All the way up to Waterloo and beyond. Indeed it was only by the time of the defense of Petersburg that Lee realized trenches were essential with the forces he had. WWI was a standoff in trench warfare but that was solved in WWII using airpower, heavy armored and nuclear weapons.
We are at another such turning point for future warfare. If there are not already small caliber ammunitions capable of penetrating personal armor, there soon will be. Until then we should see much development of stylish and light weight personal armor suitable for use in daily life. The one thing that we do need to stop depending upon is the simple projectile. We need small man portable weapons with guided projectiles. There is infrared guided stuff with which you could inform the missile what its target was and then could move out of the line of fire. Fire and forget it's called. In a crowded theatre this might work if you indicated the desired target in the LWIR and have the armor piercing round follow the target wherever it goes. The projectile might also be explosive. No partial kills. Rifles active in the IR exist but it will be a problem getting to a weapon with seeking ability that can be concealed. It will have to be done, I think. As always the problem will be that of keeping the great majority of these in the right hands.
Personally I have always leaned toward the idea of having everyone gain access to an area through a lock which is designed to cause all explosives in the lock to detonate. That too has its problems but its directness is appealing. If nothing else legal costs are reduced. If built with three chambers and simple means to assure entry of a single person in practice an explosion will not follow. Any person attempting to avoid going into the central lock may be dispatched pro forma and removed by vacuum.
The above debate makes it seem fairly clear, technology will have to provide the answer.
Future warfare will eventually become entirely a civilian activity. Apparently this is what people want.
Extremely nasty, but this is a democracy.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jul 29, 2012 - 12:51am PT
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Wow, you get all that from people wanting the right to defend themselves?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 29, 2012 - 12:59am PT
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Every Swiss man has a weapon in his house and a state mandated amount of ammunition along with it. He is also required to do a specific amount of target practice every year from the age of 18-52. Yet there is not more than one gun murder every ten years in Switzerland, with these weapons.
Like I quoted previously,
Guns are to violence as forks are to obesity
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:05am PT
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Build a better shield then a better sword will follow.
Level IIA body armor stops pistol rounds but becomes a liability when rounds such as the 5.56mm rifle round (a relatively light round) penetrate the armor.
The deformation to the round causes entry level spalling and massive tissue disruption.
If I was a cop like Jody I'd throw in an extra ceramic plate front and back anytime I heard the word "rifle".
I just got into 5.7
Yeah, I know that climbing wise that would peg me as a gumby, but I'm talking 5.7mm.
Yeah, jstan, there's a piece of the 21rst century for you.
A truly ambidextrous bullpup that fires a diminutive rifle round that will still defeat light armor.
50 rd mags
one man can easily carry 2,000+ rounds
a pistol that fires the same round and has a 20 rd clip (extendable to 30)
and the new "green" (non-lead) round that actually causes increased lethality
Hate to say this, but the good people of Aurora are lucky that the orange haired nutcase was old school.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:06am PT
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T:
Run that last one by yourself another couple of times T.
PR:
Right. It's called measure and countermeasure. Standard stuff. It is done all the time.
At least it was till W. started outing his intelligence people.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:06am PT
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getting rid of guns would be akin to getting rid of all your autos because folks do bad things with them like drive drunk or text and try to drive.
the purpose of a car is not to kill...
the purpose of a gun is to kill.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:10am PT
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"the purpose of a car is not to kill...
the purpose of a gun is to kill."
Almost every person killed by a car is killed by accident.
That's what makes cars so freaking scary - much more scary than guns. Cars are out of control.
I would bet if you live in a home with a car, your chances of being killed in a car accident are a whole lot greater than they would be if your house has no cars.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:13am PT
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There is no legitimate reason that anybody needs a car with over 100 hp.
It will protect your family just fine and still get you where you are going.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:13am PT
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Chaz:
So you are not worried when someone in a car strips rubber and heads directly toward you?
Have you checked your metabolism rate? All your calories seem to be going to your gonads.
Interesting.
PR:
I rented a Toyota Yaris when I went up to Lover's Leap. 102 horsepower and 41 mpg even though I was doing an immoderate 55 to 65. Went right over the Sierras no problem.
Very very nice. And cheap. 15K new.
Now, based upon an assumed yearly mileage I can calculate and compare present values of that car versus a plug in, as a function of gasoline cost.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:19am PT
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A car is not needed.
A gun is not needed.
All this stupid technology is not needed.
It's bondage.
Everyone should be happy to live in a mud hut and eat nice carrots.
We are stupid modern people and all our stupid junk ........
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jstan
climber
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:21am PT
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Jody:
According to your logic when you balance one person dead out against one woodchuck dead, you don't see any problem.
If so, I very much hope you are an exception. A most unusual one.
Werner:
That one is too easy. Send up a moon ball that is a little tougher.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:34am PT
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The primary purpose for guns is NOT to kill innocents. Quit implying that.
not implying that at all, simply, the only reason to use a gun is to threaten someone else's life, for whatever the cause...
you are saying that isn't true?
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:38am PT
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We are stupid modern people and all our stupid junk ........
Types the man into the computer. LOL!!!
Werner, you are one of the more Tech savvy guys on here! You crack me up!!
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:43am PT
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Actually I would argue that the purpose of most (civilian owned) guns is to kill animals, but they do get used for other things.
The purpose of my guns is definitely to kill people. I don't hunt animals.
Hopefully it will never come to that, but that is their primary purpose...
and to punch holes in paper.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:45am PT
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Dr Hartouni writes:
"not implying that at all, simply, the only reason to use a gun is to threaten someone else's life, for whatever the cause...
you are saying that isn't true?"
I'd say you're correct, especially in a self-defense situation.
Most of the times a gun is used for defensive purposes, it's either brandishing or just refering to the presence of the firearm that does the job. No shots fired.
These aren't the things that are likely to be reported to the police.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 29, 2012 - 01:50am PT
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I think there is an unrecognized premise buried here. There are a lot of gun fanciers here and a lot of people who also would like to get rid of government. Think for a moment.
Government is supposed to do for people the things they cannot do for themselves. Security has always been one of government's functions. That is why we have laws, courts and people like Jody.
So you think you would rather take care of your own security? Get rid of all tools? When your wife is not standing guard watching you sleep you can stand guard watching her sleep. And you get to hold your rifle 12 hours a day. Cool huh?
Oh don't forget our experience in Iraq. When we fired all of Hussein's army they all decamped with their rifles and started shooting the place up.
Would you believe today we are warning the Free Syrian rebels not to make the stupid mistake we in the US made?
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