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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Today's testimony is about done; another tough day for the prosecution.
Below is an example.
When you're a prosecutor and the lead investigating cop testifies as below, it's time to start worrying.
5:32 p.m. ET: Serino says he spent most of the night of the shooting trying to identify Martin. He also says there were no witnesses who could say how it all started except for Zimmerman.
5:28 p.m. ET: The jury is being seated.
5:25 p.m. ET: The court reporter is reading Serino's testimony back in court.
5:22 p.m. ET: The judge has dismissed the jurors to take up a matter outside of their presence.
5:19 p.m. ET: The attorneys are at a sidebar.
5:18 p.m. ET: Serino says Zimmerman's recreation video didn't have inconsistencies with the witness statements he was able to collect.
**Defense attorney O'Mara asks Serino if his evidence at the time supported self-defense.
"I had information that would have supported that, yes sir," said Serino.**
5:14 p.m. ET: **Defense attorney O'Mara asks Serino for any inconsistencies between Zimmerman's recreation with police and his first interviews with investigators.
"I can't think of none off hand. None that come to mind right now," said Serino.**
Serino says he expects some inconsistencies in a person's stories.
"We're not robots as people," said Serino.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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And perhaps your soul can be charged with desertion.
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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We actually PAY police officers to investigate...maybe someone should let Detective Serino in on that little part of the job description...
It isn't my neck on the line but is that the way a cop is supposed to treat a gunshot scene resulting in a death??
If so procedures should be changed or Serino should be reassigned to a position more in line with his abilities...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dude's up on a murder charge. What more do you want?
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Took months of nationwide protest to get that far.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Yup .... Obviously sereno was a big part of the initial problem No, it's not "obvious" that there was an initial problem.
The police investigated and decided there wasn't enough evidence to recommend charges, even though there were some troubling aspects with Zimmerman's overall behavior and fishy parts of his account. Unlike most of the people on this thread, the police understand that the state must prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt--mere suspicions or possibilites aren't enough to (properly) move forward.
The prosecution is acting like a wounded animal after Serino's testimony, desperately trying to get much of it stricken (even though he was the prosecution's witness).
Most of the expert commentators now don't even think Zimmerman will take the stand--the state's case has been so weak, there's no reason for Zimmerman to subject himself to cross.
This case isn't over by a long shot and I'm still sticking with the "who knows what the jury will do" line, but those of you who somehow thought this was an open-and-shut case may be eating some crow. If it is open-and-shut, it's probably not in the direction you think.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Why would anyone stand their ground in Florida?
There ani't nothing worth climbing.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Who lets another get on top of them and beat their ass and only THEN shoot them? (testimony of the neighbor has the black kid/red shirt on top whaling away). Not the police, they are much better trained than that. This dog, for example, didn't have a chance...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Complete with a Harold and Kummar talkover. Spoiler alert, don't watch it if a dog getting shot to death bothers you.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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The guy that got his dog killed was an idiot. They come in all colors and sizes.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Most of the expert commentators now don't even think Zimmerman will take the stand--the defense's case has been so weak, there's no way that Zimmerman could subject himself to cross, he would crack so hard, it would be a pathetic melt down for everyone to witness
fixed it for ya
Sort of -- if Zimm takes the stand, he may as well just plead guilty and save himself the embarrassment. Fortunately for him, it doesn't look like there's any reason for him to.
Isn't the United States Constitution a wonderful thing, with its multifaceted protections for those accused of crimes?
And good thing we've had some nice liberal Supreme Court interpretations of those rights, so that if the prosecution even hints that the jury should pay any attention to the fact that Zimm hasn't testifed, the trial's over!
Only in America!
But stay tuned--trial's still going on, anything can still happen.
Dr. F's pathetic spin aside, here's a good summary of what's happened so far from those far right whackos at the NY times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/us/prosecutors-in-zimmerman-trial-ask-jury-to-disregard-comments.html?_r=0
Here's an example of the overall tone:
Officer Serino’s testimony, in the second week of the trial in Seminole County Court, was the latest setback for prosecutors, whose witnesses have repeatedly helped bolster the defense’s case.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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rSin, try reading my posts and the links therein and maybe you'll learn something.
Regardless of what you think manslaughter is, the legal experts cited noted in today's NY Times article (see my last post) disagree:
The Sanford police did not charge Mr. Zimmerman in the killing, citing insufficient evidence and Florida’s expansive “stand your ground” law, but that decision provoked national protests. Six weeks later, after Ms. Corey was assigned to the case, Mr. Zimmerman was charged with second-degree murder.
But many legal experts said this week that the state had overreached and that it should have filed manslaughter charges. The jury can still find Mr. Zimmerman guilty of manslaughter, but it would fall to the prosecutors to argue for that result without appearing to concede a weakness in their case.
What exactly constitutes "manslaughter" depends on state law, and I have no particular familiarity with FL state law. But generally speaking, manslaughter is a common charge when two people get into a fight (not one person just attacks another) and one guy dies. May be pretty apt.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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rSin, maybe you're like the guy who posted earlier and says he wrestles and gets beat up by short fat guys, I don't know, I've never had that experience and it seems odd. When I was a kid, the short fat kids didn't inspire much fear in the other kids, maybe things have changed.
Anyway, Trayvon's height and weight are very similar to famous climber Alex Honnold's, except I'd guess Honnold is lighter.
I doubt Honnold goes around getting into fights, but I imagine he'd kick some ass if he wanted to. From what we can tell, Martin wanted to, and he did up until the end.
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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it's hard to be happy with the police investigation and evidence because it doesn't appear that an INVESTIGATION/INTERROGATION occured...
an investigation involves gathering evidence and QUESTIONING those involved especially in circumstances that result in DEATH...a traffic stop that results in death recieves much greater scrutiny than this death by GUNSHOT did???
The police had a recording of a man being instructed by 911 Dispatchers to AVOID confronting the individual and he ignored it...why was he not read his rights, arrested, interrogated...
In addition to gathering evidence and interviewing witnesses a detective's job description should include being able to put 2 + 2 together and get 4...
Sadly our justice system may fail us in this case because the quality of police work done doesn't meet a high standard...WHY it didn't in this case is another question...Was it because it is a JUDGES kid, racism, or plain incompetence, or something else???
Maybe Zimmerman is innocent...but more likely IF he gets off it is due to poor police work...
We have the best justice system in the world and being an officer of the law is a hard job...but we deserve for circumstances like this to be handled with someone doing a job they can be proud of sadly I don't think Sereno would be proud of his work if asked...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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it's hard to be happy with the police investigation and evidence because it doesn't appear that an INVESTIGATION/INTERROGATION occured...
Please stop posting until you've taken some time to get at least some basic familiarity with the case or the relevant law.
Here's a short primer:
There was an investigation and interrogation, including detailed cooperation by Zimm, who cooperated after being informed of his Miranda right to remain silent, and before he sought legal counsel.
Further, in the US, police have absolutely no right to interrogate criminal suspects; any cooperation by suspects must be entirely voluntary. Experienced criminals usually keep their mouths shut, and that is what criminal defense lawyers universally recommend.
The investigators, who testified in detail at trial, noted that Zimm's account was always consistent in the main, and that the minor inconsistencies weren't out of the ordinary or suspicious.
Certain of Zimm's actions were highly consistent with his account. For example, the investigator tried a subterfuge by telling Zimm that the investigator believed there was a recording of the shooting, in order to gauge Zimm's reaction. Zimm's reaction was that on an innocent man: he immediately exclaimed "Thank God!"
Here's the bottom line: no one really knows what happened, and no one ever really will know what happened. That's not because there was no investigation, it's because no one saw what happened, and the physical evidence generally corroborates Zimm's story. But it's of course possible that Zimm was lying, and he almost certainly colored his story to put his actions in the best light.
In our system of criminal law, where it's often said that "Better a thousand guilty men go free than one innocent be imprisoned," Zimm should be acquitted. That doesn't mean he isn't in fact guilty, but just that the State can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. What the jury will in fact do is anyone's guess, and I won't gloat if he's acquitted or apologize for anything I've written if he's convicted.
So please just shut up with your uninformed speculation and general nonsense.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Bullshit Blahblahblah, you can speculate but no one else can?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Bullshit Blahblahblah, you can speculate but no one else can? No, you people are having a hard time getting it. I'll try again, but then I have to get ready for 4th of July holiday, so probably wont be able to check back until next week.
If all we're left with is speculation, that means Zimm should be found not guilty! My speculation isn't necessarily any better than yours, it's just that none of us can prove what the hell happened beyond a reasonable doubt--and so far, neither can the State of Florida.
rSin, I agree there are some troubling aspects of Zimm's various statements, but not enough to remove all reasonable doubt because the issue isn't whether Zimm exaggerated (he probably did) but whether he had the right to defend himself against Martin's attack (which he did, even if the attack wasn't quite as dramatic as Zimm made it sound).
Edit:
Also doesn't help that this beady eyed f*#k now looks like he weighs 300 pounds Riley--I've thought the same thing, Zimm is in fact a retard! He should have lost weight, not been blowing up like a freaking sumo wrestler!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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i can't wait for the riots to start
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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maybe zimmerman is trying to gain weight to appear less attractive while in prison...somebody should send him a link to "Deliverance"...
haven't had a chance to check out the cop's statement linked above that pertains to zimmerman having malice but hope to soon...
Happy 4th of July everybody!!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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You're right, Riley. The jury does not have a "not guilty" option. Even if the jury votes for acquittal, the court won't accept it. It's either murder-2 or mans laughter.
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