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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 12, 2009 - 05:32pm PT
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Hahahahaha oh my god TGT that list is so f*#king hilarious. My favorite thing about Obama Bashers (TM) is their eagerness to blame the lasting effects of the Economy of Republican Rule on Obama. Blindly paste some more blogs, chain letters and comic strips, TGT. Your posting quality is up there with bookworm and SUAP these days.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 12, 2009 - 05:36pm PT
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I hope you'll forgive me for going off topic here. I know I'm supposed to be either bashing someone or stating a fervently held belief, but reading the above few posts got me wondering about something else.
Most of us here on the forum are not anonymous. Oh, we may have silly screen names, but pretty much everybody is willing to say "My name? Oh, sorry, I'm Joe Smith, thought you knew."
When I first looked in here I got the impression one was expected to have a screen name, so I picked one and joined the party. But, like almost everybody else here, I'm not really interested in scamming anyone, or pulling pranks as an anonymous internet troll, I just want to hang with interesting folks and talk about climbing and whatever else comes up. Including politics. There are quite a few here who know me personally, but if someone who doesn't know me wants to know my name, I tell them.
I'm not ashamed of my opinions. I'm not ashamed of who I am. If someone here on Supertopo disagrees with me, whether it's over the way I did some climb or over my political thoughts, well, that's fine. But I believe they will have a little more respect for me (and for my opinions and actions) if they know I'm not some anonymous dweeb who's so insecure that I'm afraid to even tell them who I am.
So, HowweirdDean, why are you unwilling to tell us who you are? It can't be that you're afraid people here are so crazy that they'll come and burn your house down. If you thought they were that crazy, you wouldn't be here. You seem to be serious. To want to have your views listened to and thought about. You're not a wild-eyed ranter like some (on both sides of the political spectrum) here. If I found myself in your town, I'd like to have a beer with you.
David Harris
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 12, 2009 - 05:56pm PT
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Jim
Sorry. I've read a lot of this thread but not every post, or even every page. Missed the one where you identified yourself.
D
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 12, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
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Hoh man!
A man walked into a very high-tech bar. As he sat down on a stool he noticed that the bartender was a robot. The robot clicked to attention and asked, "Sir, what will you have?"
The man thought a moment then replied, "A martini please."
The robot clicked a couple of times and mixed the best martini the man had ever had.
The robot then asked, "Sir, what is your IQ?"
The man answered "oh, about 164."
The robot then proceeded to discuss the 'theory of relativity',
'inter-steller space travel', 'the latest medical break throughs',
Etc.......
The man was most impressed. He left the bar but thought he would try a
Different tact.. He returned and took a seat. Again the robot clicked
And asked what he would have? "A Martini please."
Again it was superb. The robot again asked "what is your IQ sir?"
This time the man answered, "Oh about 100". So the robot started discussing Nascar racing, the latest basketball scores, and what to expect the Dodgers to do this weekend.
The guy had to try it one more time. So he left, returned and took a stool.... Again a martini, and the question, "What is your IQ?"??
This time the man drawled out "Uh..... Bout 50".
The robot clicked then leaned close and very slowly asked,
"A-r-e y-o-u p-e-o-p-l-e s-t-I-l-l h-a-p-p-y w-I-t-h O-B-A-M-A?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 12, 2009 - 06:44pm PT
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A man walked into a very high-tech bar... etc
Which is a pretty good, if old, joke, the punchline of which has been applied to just about any group you can think of. I think i first heard it aimed at George Bush, rather than Barack Obama.
Variations on it abound. Decades ago, when KFC was Kentucky Fried Chicken, and their big offering was the "bucket" which people could take home, the joke was...
"KFC's latest promotion is the Republican Bucket. It's all right wings and as#@&%es."
Which was immediately co-opted and spat out with Democrats and left wings and as#@&%es.
Funny, but not particularly enlightening.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 12, 2009 - 06:45pm PT
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David/Ghost, it is absolutely true that Lois has identified herself as Jim Atwater with the avatar of HowwierdDean- she has actually done so several times.
This point that you made:
"But I believe they will have a little more respect for me (and for my opinions and actions) if they know I'm not some anonymous dweeb who's so insecure that I'm afraid to even tell them who I am."
...I have absolute support for, and is directly relevant to the HWD/LEB identity theme. Further, many in the ST community have taken affront when someone comes in and persistently mis-identifies themselves or blatantly hide behind some avatar (i.e. Onyx, just passin' thru, shutupandpull)- this is the case with HWD/LEB, as well.
The difference is that Lois, when she went under the avatar LEB (and as HWD, for that matter), has proven herself to be very capable of engaging in dialogues and participating productively (to put it very, very mildly), even if you don't agree with her. This sets her identity cover-up quite aside from the more negative or subversive Onyx, jpt, or suap (as examples).
Last fall, the interactions between Lois and several other ST members (won't mention any names, but a search easily brings it up), and it turned quite hostile and negative, with Lois perceiving to have been threatened personally and possibly, physically. The responsibility for the escalation was on all sides: Lois, with her perseverating, sometimes irrational responses; the other antagonists with some very cruel, hostile, and it would be easy to perceive as threatening commentary.
Eventually, it escalated to the point where Lois announced she was leaving ST due to these interactions, and for a time, ST lost a member who is truly a square peg in a round hole, but a member nonetheless. (Honestly, watching what happened, I can't blame her for going away- it was really quite ugly to watch.) A few months later, the avatar HowweirdDean arrived on this thread, and within a month or two, several posters (including myself) began to notice interesting similarities b/w HWD & LEB, and over time, began to make comments to HWD to that effect.
The list of similarities is long and very convincing, and I won't post them all here (not now, anyway)- while any one is easy to argue away as circumstantial, together they paint a very clear picture.
My issue with Lois's identity is twofold- one, it feels duplicitious to be interacting in a thread with someone who is actively disguising their identity; and to be very, very clear- I actually like Lois, and wish her to be strong and honest enough to embrace her identity, and be forthright and take responsibility for what she has to offer. Your last comments are especially relevant here.
Sorry for the long-winded background, but as Lois has said, I have probably pursued this issue more persistently than anyone.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 12, 2009 - 07:06pm PT
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OK HWD here you go:
1. "transparency in government" (can anyone read and decipher that healthcare bill?)
FOIA requests that were automatically denied under Bush are now automatically approved more or less as they were under Clinton. You can now actually find out what your government is doing. WHICH health care bill are you talking about exactly? Those bills have been written by CONGRESS not by OBAMA. Half of the information that you guys use to criticize Obama was information held as secret under Bush.
There ARE lots of reasons to complain about Obama's lack of transparency, but I bet you guys can't name a single one without searching around on the internet for a bit. You're just parroting the stuff that you hear.
2. I also thought we were going to have "bipartisanship" (yeah right) and we were going to have "adequate time to discuss bills before they were voted upon" (He tried to ram it through Congress)
Way to close your eyes and plug your ears. Obama has made it clear repeatedly that he is happy to take good ideas wherever they are from. His speech and details on what he wants on a health care bill incorporated such ideas from Republicans, and made it clear that he wants to constructively work towards resolving differences. BIpartisanship is a two way street, however. You can't be BIpartisan if the other party wants to be partisan, and the majority of Repubs as well as the shrieking right wing media have made it clear they want the same ol same ol. Bipartisanship doesn't mean that 50% of the people that vote for a given bill are from each party, it means that you don't demonize your opponents or call them unamerican when they raise VALID concerns in a CONSTRUCTIVE manner.
3. I thought we were going to be out of Iraq (we are not).
Then you are dumb because he never said that we would be out of Iraq by September and he set a clear objective and timetable at the beginning of his Presidency for the withdrawal of combat mission oriented troops. If you wanted to be out of Iraq so badly why did you vote for Bush and then McCain? Stop being upset about things you don't actually care about.
4. I thought we were going to put an end to cronyism and corruption (putting Geitner in charge of the IRS is like asking Michael Vick looking after your dog for the weekend).
I didn't realize that putting someone in charge who was a major player under the previous administration and also incredibly well connected and experienced in the subject area of his charge was "cronyism." I also assume that you are referring to Geitner's tax issues, which as usual are more complicated than you would have us believe. For instance, did you know there was no legal way for him to pay the taxes that he owed? The only reason the IRS accepted his check was BECAUSE he was being appointed to that position. Too many years had passed for him to pay the money under the crazy rules of that particular part of the tax code. Also, the reason he hadn't paid the taxes was because it was unclear under the same crazy rules that he actually OWED any taxes. Don't let reality stop you from making vague accusations though.
5. I thought we were going to limit deficit spending (we have extended it far beyond anyone's wildest imagination).
You don't have to increase spending for the deficit to increase.....taxes can go way down and the same thing will happen...which is EXACTLY what has happened. The uptick in spending is almost entirely stimulus money...which is the only thing propping our economy up at the moment. You could have started shrieking about this problem back in 2001 when Bush pushed through the $1 trillion tax cuts for the wealthy in the name of "stimulus" and he and team Republican jacked the deficit up from there. Blaming Obama for stimulus spending to try to fix the massive failure of an economy that the Repubs left behind is just one more enormous case of having your cake and eating it too.
This is just for starters but you get the idea.
6. I thought we were going to put an end to pandering to special interest groups (we kiss trial attorneys and union thugs asses)
More vague assertions as well as the unrealistic expectation that Obama somehow isn't a politician. You never WANTED any of this stuff, you're just comparing the reality of our political system with this total fantasy bullshit ideal of what Obama is. Last time I checked Unions represented people. Also, is tort reform kissing trial attorneys asses? Cause he just proposed health care tort reform. Apparently you weren't paying attention, but your list makes that pretty obvious.
(Oh and by proposing tort reform I guess he's just pandering to the American Medical Association....which is basically a union so there you go.)
7. I thought we were going to be a president of ALL of the people (anyone want a bridge I have for sale)"
Again, you can't be a president for people who don't WANT you to be. When was the last time Obama called you unamerican? Or said that you were making our country less safe by expressing your political views? Or made someone sign an oath of loyalty to go to one of his rallies? Or scripted every single town meeting that he ever had?
Obama has repeatedly ASKED for constructive criticism and ACKNOWLEDGED the validity of the concerns of his political opponents. He then incorporated changes into his health care plan that helped mitigate these and then asked for constructive input. What more exactly do you think he should do?
Let's be honest here. You guys don't WANT to like Obama, so you don't and you look for every reason not to. Why don't you stop pretending like you are doing anything other than looking for reasons to reinforce the beliefs that you WANT to have. There are lots of reasonable and intelligent criticisms of Obama and choices he has made or ways that he has done things, but those are never raised here. It's just the same old echo chamber of ideological claptrap where anything that Obama does has to be wrong simply because he's OBAMA, not because it actually makes any sense.
Try being authentic for once and just say "I have decided to not like Obama and so I will prejudge anything that he does or has done." At least it will be honest for a change.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 12, 2009 - 07:16pm PT
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"President Bush 'did not' do the following during his 8 years, let alone 8 months:"
11. Double our national debt
..............
National debt 1-20-2001
5,727,776,738,304.64
1-20-2009
10,626,877,048,913.08
Hey you are right. He didn't quite double it in 8 years. If you don't count how messed up the economy is and how messed up the military is which will take money to fix.
Lets see.. Obama
1-20-2009
10,626,877,048,913.08
9-10-2009
11,795,045,980,436.61
Wow, he hasn't doubled it either. Not even close. Oh well, guess your facts aren't facts.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
....................
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apogee
climber
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Sep 12, 2009 - 08:40pm PT
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"You enjoyed interacting with a female named Lois who was around your age and who liked to debate and that makes you normal. I like interacting with members of the opposite sex also."
Nice try with the personal/sexual orientation angle, Lois.
Anyway, you will find that your denial and perseveration will meet it's match in my persistence (until I get bored, anyway). Since you don't feel that you need to provide any proof that you are Jim Atwater beyond another denial post, you've left it to us to consider the constant stream of obvious and inobvious clues that you have inadvertently left...and I remember them, and can relocate them. Shall I share?
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Sep 12, 2009 - 08:42pm PT
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"...Absent that, am I suppose to take you seriously?"
You having a problem with taking anyone else seriously is one of the funniest things I have ever read.
Curt
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apogee
climber
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Sep 12, 2009 - 08:44pm PT
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^^^^^^^
Careful, there- you are leaving another 'I'm Lois' clue...
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apogee
climber
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Sep 12, 2009 - 09:01pm PT
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Classically Lois: try to discredit someone by using something personal, and subtly blackmail them... Funny shite!
OK, Lois- you're on- give me a bit of time to collect it all, and I'll put it out for yourself and everyone else to consider. We'll see where it goes from there.
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Fixdpin
Trad climber
Porterville,CA
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Sep 12, 2009 - 10:16pm PT
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That MooseJaw chick is hot. I doubt if she is a Republican. The fattest state in the Union, Georgia, is mostly Republican.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
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Sep 12, 2009 - 10:17pm PT
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er, what happened in 1980 or so?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 12, 2009 - 10:27pm PT
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HWD wrote: "What is interesting is that you could substitute the word Bush for each an every time you wrote Obama and it would make perfect sense. "
For some people that may be true, unfortunately for you there are a number of well educated, articulate posters on this site who laid out AD NAUSEUM based on YEARS OF ACTUAL REAL LIFE EVENTS and ORIGINAL POSTING (not just cut and pastes from Little Green Footballs and Glenn Beck's blog) the reasons that we found Bush's decisions and leadership objectionable. And even if it WAS true, how does that make what you guys are doing ok? You cried and whimpered for months about "Bush Bashing" and then on January 20th...whatdoyaknow...you guys do the exact sh#t you claimed was so objectionable. If you were the better people you claimed to be wouldn't you be filling these threads with facts that you've rigorously checked and ideas you've thoroughly thought through instead of simply echoing the prepackaged propaganda of the right?
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apogee
climber
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Sep 12, 2009 - 11:11pm PT
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HWD/LEB, can you answer a question or two?
What is a hairshirt?
Who is Heinz Zak?
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apogee
climber
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Sep 12, 2009 - 11:26pm PT
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HWD/LEB, can you answer a question or two?
What is a hairshirt?
Who is Heinz Zak?
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apogee
climber
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Sep 12, 2009 - 11:30pm PT
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No, but you are obviously quite good at it, Lois.
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