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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 30, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
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what about these all time historic heat records, Rick?
did the weather service LIE?
Talkeetna, 75 miles north of Anchorage, reached 96 degrees. Just a day earlier, it had tied its all-time record high of 91, also set June 14, 1969 and June 26, 1953. The 96-degree high was hotter than any town in the entire state of Florida on Monday.
* McGrath hit 94 degrees, crushing its all-time record of 90 set June 15, 1969 and just tied on Sunday. A daily record high of 91 degrees for June 18 was set on Tuesday. McGrath is deep in the interior of southwest Alaska, 215 miles northwest of Anchorage.
* Cordova hit 90 degrees, breaking its record of 89 set July 16, 1995. Cordova is on the coast 145 miles east of Anchorage.
* Valdez touched 90 degrees as well, erasing its record of 87 set June 25-26, 1953. Valdez is on an arm of Prince William Sound, 120 miles east of Anchorage.
* Seward hit 88 degrees, eclipsing its all-time high of 87 set July 4, 1999. Seward is on the coast of the Kenai Peninsula, 80 miles south of Anchorage.
On Wednesday, Nome, on the state's west coast, tied its all-time record high of 86 degrees (also set on July 8, 1968 and July 31, 1977).
Alaska's two largest cities shared the heat, though without breaking records. Fairbanks has been 86 degrees or warmer Saturday through Wednesday. Anchorage's highs topped out at 81 on both Monday and Tuesday.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
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The Chief quotes a Las Vegas Guardian Express OpEd as if it were scientific in nature, but cries foul when I point to a Rolling Stone article authored by a well-respected climate scientist.
Oh, the irony...
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 30, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
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I am 50% German ancestry
therefore I have "ties" to Nazis
so what I think and say should be singled out for very careful extra consideration
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jul 30, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
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Looks like there is a little conflict of interest associated with Ed's employment in the military/enviro/industrial complex. A judge or juror would be required to recuse themselves from this discussion because of the obvious tendency towards bias. How do you spell TAINTED.
Norton, official weather stations were few and far between in the 1930's. The unofficial temps from that period are discounted somewhat-you have to look a little beyond what is commonly available on the internet.Thanks Norton. Yes I know that Norton. As the Earth gets deeper into this solar driven cooling trend more records will fall. Currently South America has been suffering record cold temps. The Midwest just shattered cold temps for this date in July. The all time record northern Hemisphere cold temp of 96 F below zero was established this last winter. We just endured the record longest lasting winter in mid to upper latitudes in northern hemisphere history. There is a chilly reception a coming for these hotheads.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 30, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
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you are most welcome rick
just pointing out the increasing tendencies even in Alaska for record heat waves
boy was June a cooker there!
records don't get set all the time, just more frequently now that the earth continues to warm
but, you knew that
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 30, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
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Looks like there is a little conflict of interest associated with Ed's employment in the military/enviro/industrial complex. A judge or juror would be required to recuse themselves from this discussion because of the obvious tendency towards bias. How do you spell TAINTED.
I agree, Chief should recuse himself.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 30, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
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Gotta timeframe for them "records".
yes I do!
last month, June, across Alaska
I posted all the records set there recently a page or two back, chief
check it out or just google alaska record heat wave
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jul 30, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
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Pretty funny Ed. The well practiced technique of personal destruction so prevalent from your guys side of the issue. How arrogant- since you don't have a title following your name you guys assume the general publics inability to reason and try to enforce exclusion from thinking.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 30, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
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since you don't have a title following your name you guys assume the general publics inability to reason
No, you totally made that up, rick. Smart people don't assume that, and certainly no one has to assume it about someone who proves his inabilities with every post.
Prosecuting Ed for conflict of interest is stupid. Do you turn down those Permanent Fund checks each year? Does your income in no way depend on the rise or fall of Alaska's petro economy? This game goes nowhere.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jul 30, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jul 30, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
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Yes Chiloe I will grant you that we all suffer conflict of interest to one degree or another. I object to being called a real estate agent-I am a builder in Ak and NV.
To highlight the STILL uncertain nature of the climate change of the near immediate past I dug up a paper by some European physicists examining attribution of the 20th century warming-anthropogenic versus natural. You guys will probably not look at it since it doesn't exactly go your way.
http://www.eike-klima-energie.eu/uploads/media/How_natural.pdf
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 30, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
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since you don't have a title following your name you guys assume the general publics inability to reason
Incorrect, Ricky.
I assume your inability to reason based on the deluge of idiotic sh#t you post, demonstrating with a high degreee of probability that you are, in fact, a moron. And that holds regardless of whatever letters you add to your name there Cletus P. Coltrane Esq., MS, JD, CPA, MFA.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 30, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
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I know that whatever I say in defense of Ed and Chiloe pales in comparison to the authoritativeness of what they've said, but I cannot simply read silently when people attack them.
The alleged conflict of interest is a red herring in this case. A court hears interested witnesses all the time. An interested judge would disqualify him- or herself, but the question of interest for witnesses comes to one of the weight of testimony.
In this case, the testimony of Ed and Chiloe in my court carries great weight for at least the following reasons:
1. Data are data. They report what people saw, and how they analyzed it. Anyone can duplicate the analysis. Yes, I know about the issues of accessibility of some of the data, but that doesn't change how one interprets it.
2. As professional scientists, they are, in fact, disinterested. They also happen to be opinionated, based on what they've seen and read. The whole reason we admit testimony in court from experts who lack personal knowledge of the facts of the case is to hear their opinions and know their methodology. An expert's very usefulness depends on learning their opinions.
3. We need to distinguish between the science of climate, and the economics of it. In my experience, much of the denial I read and hear about climate change is really expression of an opinion about what to do about it. That's not necessarily irrational, since we're dealing with a lot of nonexperimental data, but we need to differentiate between the science and the economics. [Please note that, as a professional economist, I do not see economics as science.]
4. In the same manner, the fact that Ed and Chiloe undoubtedly have opinions about what we ought to do does not disqualify or denigrate their opinions on what's happening with our climate. If anything, I listen more carefully to what they say because they can articulate risks of which I would otherwise be unaware.
Again, I think rational and knowledgeable people can disagree over what we should do, but the personal attacks I have read on climate scientists generally -- not just here -- make me wish that people would at least be clear and honest about what bothers them. We should be talking about whether the cure is worse than the disease. Instead, too many try to say there is no disease.
John
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MikeL
climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
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Jul 30, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
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What JEleazarian said. +1
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
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Noce post John.
I especially like this:
3. We need to distinguish between the science of climate, and the economics of it.
While many of the denier's here attack the economics of climate change, that does not change the science behind the ball.
And for many, it's back to the 1,2,3-step that DMT so graciously outlined for us.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
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Far more attacks are thrown at any "skeptic" scientist by the "consensus" than by the "skeptic" side towards the "consensus" side. Both ED and Chiloe are guilty of that.
The Chief, you are full of bull.
Go back to the first responses that Ed gave directly to you, THE CHIEF. He was kind, patient. You, on the other hand, were a blow-hard of the worst kind. You threw everything you had a Ed to unhinge him, and is patience was that of a saint. That he finally resorted to a bit of name calling didn't surprise me a bit--but take accountability for your actions. It was you who started the rude behavior here, and you deserve every single name spit out in your direction.
And I can copy and paste that last paragraph, replacing Ed's name with Chiloe's.
Go home little boy, the men are talking now.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 30, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
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Very well stated Mr. Elezarian.
DMT and so many others here are just tribal ideological sheep. Period.
Period! Well, then. Birthed directly from the Chief's hind quarters with no relation to reality, but so authoritatively worded. It must be true.
Neat how that works, let me try:
The CHIEF and so many others of the mentally challenged, insufficiently educated among us are just innumerate, tribal, ideological blowhard sheep. Period.
Hey, it must be true. Cause I said PERIOD, dammit!
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 30, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 30, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jul 30, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
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Of the recent commenters joining this thread Jeleazarian is the most coherent. However, a few points in his case I dispute.
1. Data are data? Really? Don't you think it depends on where, when, and how it is collected then the manner in which it is manipulated? This is one of the biggest disputes in this field.
2.As professional scientists they are disinterested? Yes, agreed if they are not working directly or indirectly in this field. If they are working in this field then there very lifeblood (government funding that is overwhelmingly tilted pro CAGW) is dependent on continuation of the anthropogenic narrative. Likewise they are not disinterested if there friends and/or family are in the field.
3.We need to distinguish between the science of climate and the economics of it. Yes, quite right. As an economist, what do you think of abandonment of fossil fuels without adequate replacement and carbon taxing's impact on the general economy. And specifically which sectors would benefit and which would be negatively impacted.
4. See number 2.
Finally, about attacks-nobody here is innocent, but a fair minded interpretation, i believe, would reveal more and angrier attacks from the pro AGW contingent.
Bruce- go back to school and get that psychology degree you so plainly desire.
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