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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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There is no clash, only weak-willed American presidents who refuse to lean on Israel.
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dirtbag
climber
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Took the words right out of my mouth healyje.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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To stop sacrificing young American lives.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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It serves a broad spectrum of interests to have low level conflict between
Arabs and Israel. Be assured our President has been instructed
how to maintain it.
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dirtbag
climber
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Once again, Cornshit has shown himself to be nothing but a God damned liar, the lowest form of sh#t on Earth. He must be one miserable dude.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Hei dirtbag - here's a little reminder for you on how Barack has been 'instructed'.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7076431.ece
fattrad
You're making good points as always. We've all seen that every Israeli past concession has resulted a brief time later in the death of hundreds of it’s citizens and mini-wars.
The Obama peace plan calls for Israel and the Palestinian Authority to hold a series of regular meetings over the coming year. Any concessions
would mean another war. So weird.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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You're making good points as always. We've all seen that every Israeli past concession has resulted a brief time later in the death of hundreds of it’s citizens and mini-wars.
Care to cite any references for your claim of hundreds killed every concession?
The standard death rate is 3 to 5 Palestinians for every israeli.
When Israel beats it's war drum the rate goes up to 10 to 12 dead Palestinians for ever Israeli dead.
So how about some credible sources. And no Fattrad does not count as credible.
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dirtbag
climber
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Cornshit: you're also the village idiot.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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"Graciously returned"?????
At least you acknowledged that they took it in the first place.
More deaths can be attributed to zionist terrorist groups than all the Palestinian actions combined. By a long shot.
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dirtbag
climber
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Curly is a good job outsourcer.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/renew-our-days-1.312852
Published 02:14 08.09.10Latest update 02:14 08.09.10
Renew our days
On the eve of 5771, the need to disengage from the stigma of the "occupation state" is already seen by many, even within the ranks of the realistic right, not as a luxury but as an emergency lifesaving operation.
Haaretz Editorial
"Hope is the thing with feathers," wrote the American poet Emily Dickinson. In Israel, the hope for peace is today like a plucked, limp-winged bird that many people, including the foreign minister, believe is not even fit for the pre-Yom Kippur kapparot sacrifice.
Nevertheless, if there is any hope for the peace process at the dawn of the Jewish Year of 5771, it is pinned primarily on the historical irony that occasionally results in our region when the extremist turns conciliatory or the peacenik gets caught up in war, and occasionally forced the parties into doing the unavoidable.
Over the past year, however, it has been hinted that our future will be determined not by declarations and diplomatic evasiveness but rather by deep tectonic shifts. Last year on the eve of Rosh Hashanah Israel received a holiday gift, bitter as wormwood, in the form of the Goldstone report on Operation Cast Lead. The United Nations report on the Gaza aid flotilla incident is scheduled for release next week.
These two reports, problematic as they are, symbolize the shocking erosion of Israel's international image over the past year: an erosion that is gradually expanding from a performers' boycott to a popular consumer boycott and even to loathing on the part of leaders, and which sometimes no longer distinguishes between the settlements and the Green Line, between the "occupation" and Israel's very right to exist.
One can dismiss this as an atavistic wave of hatred that is linked to the latest incarnation of anti-Semitism, and to respond, as various ultranationalist groups that have cropped up in Israel this year propose, by going on the offensive in support of an inert "Zionism" that is centered around the settlements and the Israel Defense Forces, in an effort to annihilate freedom of speech in the media, academia and the Supreme Court.
One can also, on the other hand, try to break down the walls that are closing in on Israel by shaking off the foreign-policy status quo that is strangling our existence and our future.
On the eve of 5771, the need to disengage from the stigma of the "occupation state" is already seen by many, even within the ranks of the realistic right, not as a luxury but as an emergency lifesaving operation. We can only hope that it's not too late to wish that Israel, dynamic and vibrant, will once again extend its wings fully within the family of nations.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/anti-israel-economic-boycotts-are-gaining-speed-1.312210
Published 01:19 05.09.10Latest update 01:19 05.09.10
Anti-Israel economic boycotts are gaining speed
The sums involved are not large, but their international significance is huge. Boycotts by governments gives a boost to boycotts by non-government bodies around the world.
By Nehemia Shtrasler
The entire week was marked by boycotts. It began with a few dozen theater people boycotting the new culture center in Ariel, and continued with a group of authors and artists publishing a statement of support on behalf of those theater people. Then a group of 150 lecturers from various universities announced they would not teach at Ariel College or take part in any cultural events in the territories. Naturally, all that spurred a flurry of responses, including threats of counter-sanctions.
That was all at the local level. There's another boycott, an international one, that's gaining momentum - an economic boycott. Last week the Chilean parliament decided to adopt the boycott of Israeli products made in the settlements, at the behest of the Palestinian Authority, which imposed a boycott on such products several months ago.
In September 2009, Norway's finance minister announced that a major government pension fund was selling its shares in Elbit Systems because of that company's role in building the separation fence. In March, a major Swedish investment fund said it would eschew Elbit Systems shares on the same grounds. Last month the Norwegian pension fund announced that it was selling its holdings in Africa Israel and in its subsidiary Danya Cebus because of their involvement in constructing settlements in the occupied territories.
The sums involved are not large, but their international significance is huge. Boycotts by governments gives a boost to boycotts by non-government bodies around the world.
New world
Human-rights organizations in Europe are essentially running campaigns to boycott Israeli products. They are demonstrating at supermarkets, brandishing signs against Israeli goods. Worker organizations, with millions of members, send circulars to their people calling on them to forgo Israeli products.
Boycotting Israeli products in Ramallah
Photo by: AP
I talked with farmers who say there are retail chains in Europe no longer prepared to buy Israeli products. The same is true for a chain in Washington.
The world is changing before our eyes. Five years ago the anti-Israel movement may have been marginal. Now it is growing into an economic problem.
Until now boycott organizers had been on the far left. They have a new ally: Islamic organizations that have strengthened greatly throughout Europe in the past two decades. The upshot is a red and green alliance with a significant power base. The red side has a name for championing human rights, while the green side has money. Their union is what led to the success of the Turkish flotilla.
They note that boycott is an especially effective weapon against Israel because Israel is a small country, dependent on exports and imports. They also point to the success of the economic boycott against the apartheid regime in South Africa.
The anti-Israel tide rose right after Operation Cast Lead, as the world watched Israel pound Gaza with bombs on live television. No public-relations machine in the world could explain the deaths of hundreds of children, the destruction of neighborhoods and the grinding poverty afflicting a people under curfew for years. They weren't even allowed to bring in screws to build school desks. Then came the flotilla, complete with prominent peace activists, which ended in nine deaths, adding fuel to the fire.
But underlying the anger against Israel lies disappointment. Since the establishment of the state, and before, we demanded special terms of the world. We played on their feelings of guilt, for standing idle while six million Jews were murdered.
David Ben-Gurion called us a light unto the nations and we stood tall and said, we, little David, would stand strong and righteous against the great evil Goliath.
The world appreciated that message and even, according to the foreign press, enabled us to develop the atom bomb in order to prevent a second Holocaust.
But then came the occupation, which turned us into the evil Goliath, the cruel oppressor, a darkness on the nations. And now we are paying the price of presenting ourselves as righteous and causing disappointment: boycott.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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I notice your choice of word "occupation " implying that it's palastinian land and the jews need to leave. It's what all the ememies of Israel call it, "occupation ". The palastinians won't stop with having east Jerusalem as their capitol. Next, they'll want west Jerusalem - the "palestinians " do not really want peace. This is proven over and over by the way that obama always has to force abbas to come to the table to discuss a peace agreement with Israel. Their goal is actually for the whole of Israel, and the jews pushed into the sea.They have said this over and over. Now that they have a muslim in white house, they have have become increasingly more bold. If Israel's leaders decided to go leftist and listened to Haaretz editors, then you can be sure that the occupation of the Jewish homeland by Jews will be history in the very near future.
This was a response to one of the above editorials. Proof that willful ignorance is not just an American dilema.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Hey Fats, if you are going to continue to complain about Saudi text books why not also condemn the Jewish text books?
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-laws-of-education-for-violence-1.312850
An entire world lies behind the statement by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef that we should pray for the death of the "Ishmaelite-Palestinians" and, above all, for the death of Palestinian Authority President Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas ). Over 52 percent of the excited children who marched off to first grade this week and are defined in Israel as Jews were sent to ultra-Orthodox and religious schools where boys and girls are separated. Even the minority among those defined as Jews who went to a non-religious first grade are subject to a system in which the religious chief scientist expresses reactionary opinions on matters of science and religion, and as in the affair of the Im Tirtzu movement, and the weak objections of Education Minister Gideon Sa'ar only exacerbate the situation. At the same time, the number-two person in the ministry, the head of the Pedagogic Secretariat, is busy censoring non-religious textbooks, replacing civics lessons with "Judaism" and chooses to send his children to religious schools.
What will we teach in this religious autonomy which, with government funding, is gradually swallowing up the majority of Israeli children and constructing their world view? The words of Rabbi Yosef senior, and even more the hypocritical investigation of the book "The King's Torah" (Torat Hamelekh) which deals with "Laws of life and death between Israel and the nations" provide an important part of the answer. Not only is the government reacting with silent assent to the rebellion of rabbis Dov Lior and Yaakov Yosef (the son of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef ), who refused to be questioned about their support for the book, in effect the education that most of the children defined as Jews will receive in first grade is close to the spirit of this book.
The authors of "The laws of killing Gentiles" did not invent a thing, and the government-financed education received by most first-graders continues a very specific halakhic (relating to Jewish law ) and kabbalist outlook. Unfortunately, according to the Orthodox interpretation of halakha, the commandment "Thou shalt not murder" does, in fact, apply to Jews only. Anyone who kills a non-Jew (the murder of a Gentile is not called "murder" ), according to halakha and Maimonides, is not supposed to be punished by human beings. The act is not permitted, but there is no punishment. For desecrating the Shabbat and "consensual sex with a married woman" the punishment is death. There is no real punishment for killing a non-Jew.
Rabbi Yehuda Halevi maintained that there are four levels in nature: inanimate, vegetable, animal, speaker. The speaker is the talking animal, the Gentile. Above them is the fifth and highest level, the Jew, the only one defined as a human being and human rights exist for him alone.
"The laws of killing Gentiles" is characterized by a practical discussion of the obligation of the individual in our time to carry out the edict that "the best among the Gentiles should be killed." But in principle the problem has existed in the Orthodox canon for many years. And this is what the children learn in the language of the Talmud: "You are called man and the nations of the world are not called man;" and in Maimonides: "Someone who sees a non-Jew drowning should not save him."
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Yes. No question.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Not if that bird keeps chasing you away.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oh Crowley, that's awesome!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Please to explain why the Iranians today released one of the three US "backpackers" who they arrested a year ago, for crossing the frontier.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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It is a health issue. She has a lump on her breast.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Chalk one up to Iranian humanity.
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