Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
Wes, quit being a fuvking prick!

Is the hockey stick accurate or not? Was Mann's data distorted?

2 simple questions.....Yes or no.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:18pm PT
The only WRONG I see is people who think a series of papers with valid concerns blows the lid off a well supported scientific finding. You have NO IDEA how many studies have been conducted on climate change. The vast majority show the same trend as Mann's.

So where is that data? Lost again is it????
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:24pm PT
Ed (after basically calling me an idiot, said);

McIntyre and McKitrick don't have any scientific criticisms, they are critical of the statistical methods that Mann et al. used in their studies. When the legitimate criticisms are reviewed, the conclusions do not change... that is, when other statistical tests are performed, the scientific results remain the same.

So they are wrong, Ed? In their presumption that the code was 'doctored' to produce a certain effect?


I must be stupid because now Ed is losing my credibility.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
It's around here somewhere. Just name the study and I will do my best to get the data. Although you won't have any idea what to do with it because you are a dufus.

Yet I was 'clever' enough to stick around this long and put up with your bullshit!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
Look, Ed is right that all this BS tit-for-tat is online BS, the fact remains that the given data and 'hockey sticks' are questionable.

Let's open up the data and let it be examined and modeled openly.

You don't even realize that Mann et al actually wrote the code you claim they doctored, do you? You really have no idea... at all.

Well, that's the problem, ain't it?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:45pm PT
So it must be true, Ed? Because who said it?

What is the US Congress currently pushing???? (Cap/Trade)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
So the two Canucks are wrong????? You never answered, you or Wes......

The data IS available. The data IS being modeled properly.

So the 2 Canucks are wrong???
willie!!!!!

Ice climber
honolulu, hawaii
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
OK.

You've got a five bedroom house that is fully stocked with food. Even a freezer in the basement.

Somebody new moves in every day.

How long before the house smells like sh#t and there's nothing to eat!?!?!!?!?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
Congress accepted the report....
...the membership of the National Academy of Science committees involved is listed below.

And you can read all of the papers and make the conclusions yourself.

Then it's settled...Congress is always right! Woo-hoo!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 16, 2010 - 11:58pm PT
No, Wes!!!!! You stupid, arrogant, f*#king prick!!!

When did I deny a warming planet???? I do oppose f*#ks like you trying to distort facts to suit their agenda. I don't deny warming or cooling, I oppose people politicizing it like you.

F*#k you!

At least Ed can keep his head about him.

Also, look at the McIntyre models and they'll show warming back before the car was invented....idiot! Mann left all that out of his models....
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 17, 2010 - 12:18am PT
bluering, the M&M had a criticism of the statistical methods that Mann et al. used.

Not only did Mann et al. respond, three independent scientific committees looked into the criticisms. In the end, the conclusion of the scientists was that while some of the M&M criticisms were justified, when the data were treated to different statistical tests, the scientific result remained the same.

I'm curious what your take is on the Mcintyre theory that the algorithms were set to produce a certain effect with a certain outcome.

Was it intentional and damaging to science? Address my root questions, man.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 17, 2010 - 12:27am PT
Many such independent studies have been done, and they agree with Mann et al.,
they do not agree with McIntyre...

Yeah, but didn't he use the same data as Mann?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 17, 2010 - 12:32am PT
I'm sure you've seen this analysis, Ed.

http://climateaudit.files.wordpress.com/2005/09/mcintyre.mckitrick.2003.pdf

comments?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 17, 2010 - 12:39am PT
his whole controversy of getting the actual data is frankly bizarre to me... the last thing I would want is someone else's data...


Isn't that the crux, and yet, the fallacy of the data????

Science isn't about getting everyone's data, but rather, understanding the science implied by the observation/experiment and designing something independent to challenge that science.

What??? Science is purly data-oriented...Sure there is experimentation, but it's based on data and theory.
Mimi

climber
Feb 17, 2010 - 12:40am PT
I found the show Solar Storm, NatGeo Naked Science. It's in 5 10-minute segments. A bit tedious waiting for the downloads but worth the watch.

http://havenvideo.com/viewtopic.php?f=163&t=58204
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 17, 2010 - 12:50am PT
As I've said above, science works in spite of the fact that humans do it, which is pretty incredible.


I DO appreciate guys like you, Ed, and I DO respect you. I just have questions that need answerin'. I don't think you can do it despite your extensive knowledge of other things...that's all.

And Wes can go hump himself.....

Good night.


Oh as far as Ed's question, I was referring to Mann's use of old temperature data readings.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 17, 2010 - 01:01am PT
others find out not by investigating those people, but by doing independent science

Totally correct in the scientific world. But what if the media/world shuts down the alternative theories. And the scientific community.

What if the media whores latch onto one theory and give no credence to the other, more obvious one?

And then what if one is proven to be compromised? Still ignore the obvious?

I'm just sayin'.....

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 17, 2010 - 01:12am PT
Ed, my science is that the scientists forged their numbers...

That throws everything out to me. It's a fraud! Start over with open data-sets and open computer models, baby!!!

Let EVERYONE see what you got and and ANYLIZE IT ALL!!!!
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Feb 17, 2010 - 09:09am PT
hmmmmmmmmm...

it seems in 2007, douglas keenan submitted for peer review a paper that alleged jones (the cru guru) knowlingly used tainted data...the reviewers voted 2 for and 1 against...jones was the lone dissenter...however, jones NEVER disputed keenan's allegations

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/02/17/did-nature-misreport-fraud-issue-with-jones/


curiouser and curiouser...
Mimi

climber
Feb 17, 2010 - 09:10am PT
Yes, it did have some of the usual TV drama. One interesting fact that I wasn't aware of is how the solar storm activity heats the atmosphere causing it to expand to the point where satellites (and Sky Lab) can fall out of orbit. That graphic was good. Based on the scale of the sun's potential influence, it seemed logical that it would have a much greater impact on warming than us puny people. Time for more reading on this subject. Thanks, Ed.
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