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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 20, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
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You mean they come illegally and complain
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 20, 2016 - 01:42pm PT
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If immigration laws are such a raging priority for the GOP, why haven't Republicans introduced any significant legislation to do anything about it? (Rhetoric doesn't count.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 20, 2016 - 01:43pm PT
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John, I find most of your proposals reasonable, and those I don't, negotiable. You appear to be a "mainstream" conservative in what you've written, all too rare these days.
I guess the problem with buying into that, is what one has to buy along with it.....the things you don't mention, and which is killing the GOP.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 20, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
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You mean they come illegally and complain
No, I don't. In 1975, when the Lebanese Civil War broke out, I had three uncles, five aunts, and five first cousins living in Beirut. I am a native-born citizen. My mother was naturalized when I was three years old, in 1954. She had a brother, two sisters, two brother-in-law and three sisters-in-law (aforesaid aunts and uncles) there. She could not bring them to safety in the United States under our immigration laws because they were considered "Lebanese," and there was a relatively small quota for them. Had they been living in England, France, Germany or Scandinavia, however, there would have been no problem emigrating immediately.
This is not only a limitation on foreigners, this is a limiation on the right of citizens. None came here illegally. Rather, they waited in line, as shells were falling, for years before they could enter. My uncles' occupations were pharmacist, teacher, and tour guide. The tour guide and his wife emigrated in 1979 along with their son, my first cousin, who is a physics professor. They cost the United States nothing, and paid taxes for years. The others emigrated to France, or stayed in Beirut's devastation.
This isn't the gripe of those here illegally. It's the gripe of those who came legally, but had to wait an unconscionable time, compared with others of different ethnicity. If this isn't racism, what is it?
John
P. S.:
I guess the problem with buying into that, is what one has to buy along with it.....the things you don't mention, and which is killing the GOP.
If by that you mean the populism of the Trumpers, or the social restrictionism of the "Christian Right," you're correct, Ken. If Johnson and Weld can transform the Libertarians from proposing, e.g., eliminating the IRS and legalizing heroin, to more completely resembling the party of Lincoln, we may be getting a real improvement.
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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 20, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
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Democrats blocked th bill to remove federal funding for " sanctuary cities" and being a citizen does not mean the rest of your tribe gets to follow cart blanch.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 20, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
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Reform our racist immigration policy, and provide a practical means for decriminalizing the presence of those who are currently in the United States illegally. To make this meaningful, however, we need to enforce our borders effectively.
This seems reasonable on it's face, but the last sentence is the one that creates a veto on the process. The problem is how one interprets this.
For example, for most of the O'bama administration, the net number of illegals entering the country has been near zero. That sounds like effective enforcement of our borders, to me. Obviously it does not, to you.
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Coach37
Social climber
Philly
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Jul 20, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
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"Reduction of "one-size-fits-all" mandates for returning money collected by the federal government to the states and, instead, returning that money with "no strings attached;" in order to allow the states to be the "laboratories of democracy."
Ok, so what happens when one of those "Labs of Democracy" tests out your favorite discredited Movement Conservative ideas, like the supply side Laffer curve voodoo,and it fails?
Take Kansas, as Example A. They have implemented a full blooded wingnut economic agenda since Sam Brownback became governor. Now, they are totally broke and financial situation is getting worse, school system unfunded, roads disintegrating, running a huge multi billion dollar deficit.
All because trickle down supply side featuring big tax cuts for the wealthy, has failed in Kansas, as any person marginally educated in economics could have told you would happen. So when both past and current evidence demonstrate that your "lab experiement" has failed, and the State still refuses to take a different course? Why should we continue to subsidize a flawed and failed ideology?
Your idea presumes honest and rational actors. The GOP are neither.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 20, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
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This isn't the gripe of those here illegally. It's the gripe of those who came legally, but had to wait an unconscionable time, compared with others of different ethnicity. If this isn't racism, what is it?
\
Kind of kills the concept of someone earlier that said that claims of racism only come from liberals.
John, I don't have a definitive answer to your question, because I don't have access to the documents and policies involved.......however,
The case you made was not about people of different ethnicities, but of different nationalities. The relationship with said countries is dramatically different than lebanon, including trade, defense, etc. I would expect that we would have different quotas for countries that we have closer partnerships with....I'm also not sure that I am familiar with the "Lebanese Race"?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 20, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
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Ken, the quotas were deterimined based on the ethnic and racial composition of the United States at the time the quotas went into effect. They made that determinatnion by country of origin, mainly in an effort to make it harder for southern Europeans, particularly Italians, to emigrate.
John
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 20, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
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"Reduction of "one-size-fits-all" mandates for returning money collected by the federal government to the states and, instead, returning that money with "no strings attached;" in order to allow the states to be the "laboratories of democracy."
Because "no strings attached" translates into "no ethics involved".
I listened to a radio program the other day, that talked about welfare, that is administered as you suggest, via block grant. It gave a series of example of redirection of the welfare money to programs that benefited upper-middle class families instead of those in poverty, for which nothing was left. These problems were managed by Republican politicians.
http://www.scpr.org/programs/reveal/
A welfare check
Twenty years ago, President Bill Clinton vowed to end welfare as we know it. And he did.
Today, only a quarter of welfare dollars actually goes toward basic assistance – housing, transportation or essential household items. On this hour of Reveal, we take a road trip with Marketplace's new podcast "The Uncertain Hour" and find out the surprising ways different states use this money, for things such as relationship counseling and college tuition for well-off kids.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 20, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
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Ken, the quotas were deterimined based on the ethnic and racial composition of the United States at the time the quotas went into effect. They made that determinatnion by country of origin, mainly in an effort to make it harder for southern Europeans, particularly Italians, to emigrate.
Are not Lebanese caucasians? I'm certain that Italians are.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 20, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
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However, in spite of my "no strings attached" example, I still think this is something that is controllable----WITH some strings attached to avoid abuse. We all like to think that we would never be the ones to abuse a program, but my observation is that people that I would consider highly ethical and moral will often succumb to the lure of using resources in a non-objective way.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 20, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
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Coach37, the critics of the Kansas tax cuts seem to have pronounced their ruin prematurely. The liberals love to allege that Kansas's tax cuts led to ruination. See, e.g.:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/04/20/kansas_tax_cuts_are_a_mistake_and_everyone_agrees.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kansas-loses-patience-governor-sam-brownback-tax-cuts/
It certainly left less money for state expenditures, so for liberals, who spend their lives to spend taxpayers' money, it was a disaster, and Sam Brownback and Kansas Republicans are villains of the first order.
Not surprisingly, at least to those who like look at opinions on different sides of issues, there is also substantial evidence that they are succeeding. For example:
http://reason.com/archives/2014/07/28/are-tax-cuts-working-in-kansas
http://www.wsj.com/articles/seeded-with-tax-cuts-kansas-harvests-the-benefits-1431729743
The following is, to me, the most accurate analysis of the Kansas situation:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434885/kansas-tax-cuts-wont-starve-government-beast
It may seem a bit surprising to see National Review publishing an article that says that tax cuts of less-than-confiscatory rates won't increase tax revenues, and won't starve the government into shrinking, but that's their conclusion.
of course, the state spending in Kansas, as in California, has a lot of money laundering. The state acts as a central collection point, and then gives the money back to local government to spend, but as the state dictates. Thus, the lower state tax rates don't lead to a lower overall tax rate. They just move the taxing authority closer to where the money gets spent.
I personally find that move a good thing more often than not, but whether Kansas's policy is good or bad depends on your political preference for the size and centralization of government. It's economic effect, as far as I can determine, is little more than a wash.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 20, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
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There seems to be a quibble on the meaning of "racism." What do you call discrimination against an ethnic group? Whatever that is (I'd always seen it referred to as "racist,") that's what I meant.
John
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jul 20, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
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Coach, you must be reading the wrong info on Kansas
It's a Huge Success!!
Just like Louisiana was with Bobby Jindal
Those guys turned the economy around!!
Huge tax breaks for the rich and Corps, huge defunding of regular Gov. services. Let the deficits pile up,
You can depend on the "Trickle Down" that is going to fill the coffers with giant returns after a couple years!!
The Koch Brothers have invested a lot of money in boasting this successful Image!
Another thing that has really helped their economy was relaxing environmental regulations in those States, they were a real burden on so many business's bottom line.
And as predicted!!, there was a Huge hiring frenzy after these changes were made.
The businesses were so freed of Gov. regulations that they could finally go hog wild and feed huge returns back into the economy.
You can't believe what the people say, those teachers are just a bunch of whiners, they can work at a coal mine if they don't like their lowered wages.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 20, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
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If immigration laws are such a raging priority for the GOP, why haven't Republicans introduced any significant legislation to do anything about it?
Because illegals drive down the cost of labor.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jul 20, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
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It's predicted that the day Jesus comes back, will be the time that the Trickle Down finally starts to pay back, Big Time!!
and Jesus is Coming Soon!!
I read on a bill board.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jul 20, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
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Hi John
perhaps it is still too early to make an accurate assessment of the effects of Kansas cutting tax rates substantially, surely you would agree?
presently Kansas has the 46th worst economy in the United States
http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article69776282.html
last year there was not not enough money in the state budget to fully fund education
and as a result some school districts had to close early and send the students home
On May 11, the nonpartisan Kansas Center for Economic Growth posted an analysis that concluded "Neighboring states have had more income tax revenue to make the public investment that improves quality of life. They've been able to support schools, safe communities, health care, roads and other essentials. Kansas, meanwhile, is seeing income tax revenue 11.6 percent below before the tax cuts were enacted. ... Whether looking at private-sector job growth or all job growth, Kansas is getting beat
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article65073642.html
note I am not referencing any "liberal" sources to ensure no charge of "bias'
John, the fact is that cutting taxes for the wealthy and expecting them to be so appreciative that instead of just pocking the cash they instead invest it in such directly actionable wary as to benefit the economy simple has little if any history of success
that fact is not only true in Kansas but also Federally, we all recall the massive tax cuts that President Bush and his Republican House and Senate gave disproportionately to the wealthy back in 03, what followed four years later was the worst recession in 70 years in the United States
Reagan cut taxes and the US economy went into Recession, he then had to raise taxes 11 times. There just is no defense anymore for the fallacy of tax cuts "working"
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Jul 20, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
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What's the climbing culture like in Kansas?...
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