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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 27, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
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"$400 increase with a 4k increase in my deductible."
Meaning your previous plan was a fraud, and you were essentially paying to be uninsured.
Joe, try to re-read, and this time with comprehension.
His PREVIOUS plan cost less per month and had a LOWER deductible!
What he gets under ACA costs MORE and with a HIGHER deductible. And this correlates with MILLIONS of similar cases around the country. The MIDDLE class had relatively cheap insurance and with low deductibles. NOW, under the ACA, they are FORCED to purchase plans that ARE the very "fraud" you said of his original policy. They are costly, AND they have high deductibles... essentially paying MORE to be uninsured!
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Nov 27, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
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And of course, you know that the coverage isn't actually better now, and they won't be denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions, and they won't be cancelled when they actually do need coverage, and there's no spending caps anymore, because...well, because that's the fantasy you so desperately want to believe, and that your failed ideology tells you to believe in.
It will be funny when the reality hits Hedgy and his Kaiser plans monthly payment doubles and his deductible triples.
It is just around the corner Hedgy. Your Union will only protect you for so long. Enjoy the view from your delusional pedestal as you will come crashing down soon.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Nov 27, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
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Hedge,
my coverage was fine.
Saw me through a tough time and always met my needs.
You have no idea what you are talking about. As usual.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Nov 27, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
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Facts, Not Fantasy.
Hedge, your whole online world is a fantasy. Fortunately, you are discounted by 98% of the folks here on ST as being 100% non credible.
You stating something as FACT is an immediate announcement that your statement is 100% B.S
Maybe do something with the rest of your life rather than spreading your delusional vitriol.
Go out there and do some charitable work rather than sitting behind your computer spewing hate all day long. Go out there and make a difference in someones life rather than being the bitter old dude sitting behind his computer monitor spewing fiction.
Basically, you are a bully.
Carry on and Happy Thanksgiving!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 27, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
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looks like another master stroke by Obama...
I've suspected this for some time, but now I'm certain: Joe is trolling.
Even the Obumbalator has publicly stated that Obumblecare is anything BUT a "master stroke."
LOL... gotcha Joe.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 27, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
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you're confusing the policy itself....
Correct me if I'm wrong (and you'll correct me even if I'm not wrong), but the Obumbalator in Chief has publicly apologized for (and the Dems have been running scared of) the actual outworkings of the policy itself... namely that the policy ITSELF has resulted in millions losing their existing policies and doctors ("You can keep your policy. Period!" "You can keep your doctor. Period!")
Those issues are not "implementation of the policy." Those issues are the implications of the policy itself, and those ARE what the Obumbalator and his cronies have been apologizing for and backpedaling from.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
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"...those ARE what the Obumbalator and his cronies have been apologizing for and backpedaling from."
Nothing but politics. Yawn.
Change this big is hard and fraught with pitfalls. Navigating the political process alongside it is at least as big a challenge. Granted, this could probably have been planned and executed somewhat more smoothly, but this administration gets some credit for trying.
Would it have been a better way to spend the time & effort on another war? You can bet yer arse that if Repugs were driving this bus, this problem would have received no attention whatsoever (aka 'GOP Status Quo'), and we would be at war with both Libya & Syria.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 27, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
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So what do you die hard Obama haters propose as an alternative?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 27, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
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The apology was for telling people they could keep their bad policies, not for changing the law to get rid of them.
Now I know that there's nothing more to talk about. This level of revisionism, and even while the actual apologies are still available for all to see, is just ridiculous.
Nothing more to see here. Move along. Move along. Okay, right, I will move along. Done with this.
Joe = Troll
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 27, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
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He apologized for telling people they could keep their policies when they couldn't
Exactly my point. He apologized for an actual implication of the POLICY ITSELF, which is NOT, as you said, ONLY for the hitches in rolling the mess out. The POLICY has the implication that millions of people are losing their (good) policies, and he DID apologize for THAT VERY THING. And THAT is the very thing you claimed was a non-issue, that the ONLY issues concerned roll-out. But it is NOT the case that the only issues concern roll-out. The POLICY ITSELF has some really horrendous implications, those are more and more being realized, and the Obumbalator and Dems have apologized for THOSE.
You simply can't reasonably float, as you tried to, that the ONLY issues here are roll-out issues.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
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"He apologized for an actual implication of the POLICY ITSELF....he DID apologize for THAT VERY THING.... the Obumbalator and Dems have apologized for THOSE."
You simply can't reasonably float, as you tried to, that the ONLY issues here are roll-out issues."
Man, you are sure hung up on apologies. Who gives a shite?
Yep, there are sure to be more problems that become apparent as the ACA rolls out...and they'll get fixed, because to not do so would be political suicide.
But while you guys hand wring to the bone, the question will always remain....
...and never seems to really get a clear answer....
..but gets dodged while you bitch and complain....
'So what do you die hard Obama haters propose as an alternative?'
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 27, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
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It's everywhere. He said what he said. You simply don't want to accept the fact that the policy itself (not just the roll-out difficulties) have terrible implications for millions of middle class Americans. And there will be backlash from it.
Oh well, this isn't worth any more of my time.
Obumblecare just needs to be replaced by single-payer that is paid for by sales, luxury, and vice taxes. Nothing we're actually going to implement will abide by principles I believe in. But I'll accept anything that really CAN work at this point. Obumblecare will not be the answer, so let's just push off downslope to where this was headed from its inception. Let's just pay for it without more income taxes! That's all I can ask at this point.
I'm out.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
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"Obumblecare just needs to be replaced by single-payer that is paid for by sales, luxury, and vice taxes."
Ironically, on that you'll probably find firm agreement from most of the libs here.
Problem is...that wasn't really a political option, or you can bet yer arse Obama would have taken that road.
The ACA has got issues, but there's the very real possibility that it will be the first step towards the proper solution: a single payer system.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 27, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
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So what do you die hard Obama haters propose as an alternative?
and
yes, I too would like to hear about this
point by point
starting with insuring 40 million wihout
dealing with denial and cancelled policies for pre existing conditions of which some 50% of adults have
dealing with your plans for bending the overall healthcare curve through outcome based policies
ok, ready set go!
A single-payer healthcare system would certainly fit the bill. Don't expect any of the Obama haters to suggest this though.
Curt
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 27, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
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People can't afford policies at all now.
And the deductibles will insure they join the dependent poverty rolls if they do get sick..
"progressives"
are
perverse!
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 27, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
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a single payer, being the GOVERNMENT, will NOT solve the big problems
Really? It does in every other western democracy in the world.
Curt
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Nov 27, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
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People can't afford policies at all now.
While I sincerely doubt this is actually true (no offense intended personally to you TGT, but "can't afford" and "will have to review my budget and dislike the notion of having to consider changing current spending habits" are two different things) one might consider that now those people have an idea what so many others who have had to go without health insurance over the years felt like.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
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"HIs legacy will not be pretty. "
The ACA could be completely repealed next week and his legacy wouldn't look half as bad as the f*#kwad Shrub (aka the guy you Repugs voted for twice).
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Nov 27, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
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Yeah for sure..The Koch brothers have stirred their voting base up and the chickens in the coop are flapping in a frenzy over the latest propaganda coop...
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