Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
|
First of all, because I haven't read the whole thing, can I ask you, have you received the correct answer yet? If not, I'd like to go with... old guys climbing like they did before the internet. Come to think of it, that would be "What are Tradsters?????"...Nevermind.
|
|
Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
|
jaybro,
it is possible to make some assessment as to the quality of a bolt you are going to use.
Ideally 3/8" or bigger diameter
look at the letter on the top of the bolt; hopefully you see a "D" or an "E". This will tell you the length. If there is a lot of threads sticking out it does not have as much embedment.
Unscrew the nut and see how tight the bolt fits the hole. Can you retorque it without getting movement?
what is the bolt material and how solid does the rock matrix it is in sound when hitting with a hammer?
Is the bolt in pure shear loading with no axial component. Does the bolt have any bending.
I ran some tests on Hilti bolts and the standard deviation was 0. That batch had very good quality control. typical? I don't know.
So when the above criteria has been met the bolt would seem to be able to perform as intended with an expected strength about 50% higher than strong gear. And these placements can sustain one factor 2 fall at least we hope but we seldom have that much loading.
But no one knows how strong a given bolt is without testing and likewise your intuition regarding the feel of how solid gear is is not infallible and it may be deceiving. Certainly you have the advantage of one placement for each potential fall.
another thought: I would put a little more trust in someone else's bolt placements than just anyone's gear placement.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
|
I have to say, equating a coed's vacation in France with trad climbing in the service of characterizing adventure is quite the lexicographic Houdini act!
Well done RGold.
Now we've likewise concluded that sport climbing is equal with trad climbing in terms of adventure?
In my opinion this is ludicrous, and the process we used to arrive at that has eventuated in a logical absurdity.
Honestly, sport climbing = more fun maybe, certainly more athletic: but hey, that's just me talkin’ … what would I now about these things.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
|
Really glad you guys are sorting all this out!
'Leaves me free to get back to taking care of the heavy lifting.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
With great pride, I now present to you:
Trad Guys Evolve, part one
Back in the day,
Trad Guys created all kinds of silly rules, many of which have been well documented.
Others ... have not been so well-known, such as accepted styles of footwear:
Dale Johnson, demonstrating what once was required footwear BITD, here on the third flatiron:
Doug Robinson explains:
"Yeah man, the rollerskate thing was a style constraint that really made men out of us!"
"But we broke free of that crap in short order"
Doug Robinson demonstrates the advanced post-rollerskate era trad footwear on the Third Flatiron:
Disclaimer: This is purely a characterization of my experiences with trad and is not intended to impugn the preferences of sport climbers,
Nor is it an indictment or criticism of sport climbing practices.
|
|
McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
|
Trolling with Roller-skates. Now, I've seen everything!
|
|
MH2
climber
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
|
Roller-skates don't count unless you wear boxing gloves, too.
|
|
McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:21pm PT
|
I'd like to see the full pic of that guy then. LOL. Trad is about making thinks difficult but isn't that going too far? Looks like his hammer might be padlocked in the holster too. That pic is probably really from the first attempt of the Eiger - I mean the very first. It's strange to think crampons evolved from roller-skates. Things usually swing wildly in Trad.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
|
Looks like his hammer might be padlocked in the holster too. It's a-a-a-all about the eagle eye with you McHale's Navy, that's why you're on our team!
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
|
Spartacus was TRAD!
Bob Kamps was Uber Trad:
photo care of Higgins website
Bachar, Grammicci, & Kauk?
Well, sure until that turncoat Indian went over to the dark side …
photo Mike Graham
Tarbuster: you bet your chock slottin’ ass … 'still trad:
Seen here in 2009, with not so trad accoutrement, QuickDraws!
Although he petitioned for leniency seeing as he was sporting that retro footwear,
He was demoted three gold stars for this and the bailiff whacked his PP, TWICE!
Disclaimer: This is purely a characterization of my experiences with trad and is not intended to impugn the preferences of sport climbers,
Nor is it an indictment or criticism of sport climbing practices.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
|
Rules, rules, rules. No rules, no game.
Here's my stab at the universal rules for climbing (doesn't matter what climbing game you're playing).
Rule #1 - Be as safe as you can be for the kind of climbing game you've decided to play.
Rule #2 - Don't dink around so much that you embarrass yourself or those around you.
Rule #3 - Don't eff up the the rock or the rest of the environment for the people that come
after you.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
|
AND follower always buys the first round of beers for the leader!
Priorities.
|
|
McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
|
Looks like his hammer might be padlocked in the holster too.
It's a-a-a-all about the eagle eye with you McHale's Navy, that's why you're on our team!
Been there done that. I've tried to push blind-folded climbing for years, but talk about being up against a brick wall.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
|
Oh, yeah, I forgot Rule #4!
AND follower always buys the first round of beers for the leader!
|
|
McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
|
Rule #2 - Don't dink around so much that you embarrass yourself or those around you
At first I read that as 'don't drink'. I started to get pissed off!
OK - I'm out of here. Got to go take photos of the Sunset and stuff like that.
|
|
MH2
climber
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
|
The upper end of the roller-skates. Probably not applicable to sport climbing.
edit:
The climb is Little Chamonix, Shepherd's Crag, in the UK
"Little Chamonix is one of those classic routes which suddenly shows its teeth around 130 ft."
from Mountain Magazine 42, March/April 1975
Ray McHaffie: "I wouldn't recommend anyone else try as it is extremely dangerous."
So there's your adventure.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
|
another thought: I would put a little more trust in someone else's bolt placements than just anyone's gear placement.
Absolutely! Or just anyone's belay, for that matter...
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
|
Naked Edge: no more adventurous than a sport climb???
from Godfrey and Chelton's CLIMB!
Choose answer wisely!
No no, put your hands down class and take good time with this one.
It'll be part of a pop quiz when we hit 1000 posts!
|
|
McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
|
OK - I'm laughing.
The upper end of the roller-skates. Probably not applicable to sport climbing.
It's stuff like that that pushes the standards. They saw it could be done with roller-skates and boxing gloves and thought, "Let's push harder. We could start going to the gym. We'll show them routes that can't be done with roller-skates and boxing gloves. We'll show em!"
That's how the Naked Edge came to be.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
|
That guy with the boxing gloves shows a smartly fit crash helmet!
I'm all about coiffure and chapeau over here, just in case any of you have missed that ...
|
|
McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
|
Isn't that a Joe Brown helmut? Is that him belaying on the Edge?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!