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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Jul 15, 2010 - 11:40pm PT
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Thanx Jennie... You saved me some work.
Now, Jolly... I'm really not trying to be a dick here, just anticipating...
Does this CONVINCE you that you are wrong? At least about why it fell so fast? If not, why not? What is wrong with the math? Are you going to move the goal post now? Perhaps ask for calcs with the exact values of the building parameters (E.g. weight of upper 30 floors, furnature, people; exact distance between floors; designed static load limits for the floors) perhaps?
I think that rather than even consider you may be wrong, you will look for any reason to dismiss what has been presented to you. Why? Because you said that "why it fell so fast was your biggest issue", so without that, all you have are some "small issues", and you like to have big issues to hold onto, don't you?
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Jul 15, 2010 - 11:45pm PT
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Sounds like you're releasing security secrets or at least violating the company's ethics policy. Ummmm... Nope. I posted nothing that couldn't be gleaned from the local paper, or various websites about the status of all of the US Commercial Nuclear Power plants, which also include updated estimates of when they will be back online if they are in an outage.
Or was that an attempt at a slam? Or, maybe you didn't understand what it was that I said?
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Mimi
climber
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Jul 15, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
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Why so paranoid? You explained your position. I was kidding about government and those nasty corporations.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Jul 15, 2010 - 11:55pm PT
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Wow... Paranoid, huh? You got that out of what I said?
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Mimi
climber
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Jul 16, 2010 - 12:15am PT
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Sort of but I agree with your views. I was only kidding. Glad to have another reasonable person aboard.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 16, 2010 - 12:16am PT
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Mimi, the thing is, most people are reasonable. This thread skews things so it appears otherwise.
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Mimi
climber
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Jul 16, 2010 - 12:22am PT
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I know. I was trying to be nice for a change.
Like legalization of pot. Do you think we'll see the complete absence of this silly conspiracy theory in our lifetimes? We can only hope.
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Mimi
climber
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Jul 16, 2010 - 12:41am PT
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Thanks for verifying; that whole post was not very inviting at this stage of the evening.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 01:55am PT
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jennie that hodgepodge makes no sense to me. if you think you understand it, try expressing it in your own words, if you can. i don't think you do. leave out the silly formulas--they don't impress me.
this nonsense is typical of the disinformation full-court press--they even try to mimic truthers' demonstration of structure and freefall with their jar full of pennies.
you can't get away from a very basic fact. freefall speed implies immediate dissolution of all structure. collapsing in the upper stories of the towers, if it were even capable of destroying the much stronger structure beneath, would take considerable time to do so. buildings which do pancake, such as those in the mexico city earthquake, don't come down at freefall speed. and the twin towers structure was simply not vulnerable to such pancaking. these things don't happen in the real world without planned, controlled demolition. this is scientific fairy tale.
the NIST scenario also warrants some consideration here. NIST takes great pains to try to explain the video evidence of the building 7 penthouse beginning to sink slightly before the rest of the collapse ensues. they invent a mythical weak column deep within the building which somehow transfers its weakness upward making for the penthouse effect. this is in response to many industry reports that such a preliminary sinking is quite typical of controlled demolitions, evidencing the action of the initial cutting charges before the implosion proceeds.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 16, 2010 - 01:59am PT
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this nonsense is typical of the disinformation full-court press--they even try to mimic truthers' demonstration of structure and freefall with their jar full of pennies.
Oh no, it's The They!!!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 16, 2010 - 02:02am PT
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Thanks, Jennie - a good post!
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jul 16, 2010 - 09:21am PT
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It's always funny to me how some "conspiracy theory" could "never be true" in some denying minds...
40 years later after all that denial...but go ahead "trust US".
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 10:08am PT
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good point, 426. "they" don't necessarily have "our" best interests foremost. but "they" sure want us to think "they" do.
the list doesn't end with the tuskegee experiment. check out operation northwoods and the u.s.s. liberty, dirtbag.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 10:18am PT
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Jolly, I can't believe you got sucked in by that YouTube video
He does not add in the accumulating mass of the collapse among other ridiculous assumptions.
When the first floor collapses, it's mass is added to the block above. As each additional floor collapses, the collapsing masses gets larger.
He even calculates negative acceleration, which means the collapse acceleration reduced from the initial freefall acceleration after one floor and velocity would actually reduce at some point. Does that even make sense to you, Jolly?
Holy Cow what dumbf*#ks.
As a managing member of the NWO, I will recommend to the committee that you be placed in the 'not a threat to the Truth' section. We have limited resources since Cheney left office so we have to focus our efforts as efficiently as possible.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 10:56am PT
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monolith, the myth of accumulating collapse collapses, so to speak, with the timing. any percussion of one thing breaking loose and dislodging something else requires time. you don't have more than two seconds over freefall. does not compute.
this myth also falls apart with the most elementary understanding of twin tower structure. the towers were core-and-shell, with the floors, shaped like square donuts, suspended between the two. the videos show floor-by-floor destruction of all three elements--core, shell and floors, not shearing and pancaking. there is tremendous spewing of dust early in the collapse sequence--check out that post klimmer did here in memory of john bachar, who was onto this as well and quite ardent about standing for the facts. only a fool could imagine that coming from a gravity collapse.
there just isn't evidence for pancaking, and "they" (hehe, might as well use the word, dirtbag) hate to talk about it because thomas eagar has mud on his face for suggesting it. if the buildings pancaked, there should have been a stack of pancakes on the ground, and there wasn't anything that came close. there was tremendous energy involved, not nearly enough to derive from a gravity collapse. the terrible pulverization, attested to by everyone who worked over the debris, is proof of that.
one of the videos shows the floors exploding downward FASTER than large pieces of debris falling free directly alongside.
btw, i think i'm digging your jar full of pennies up there. see, the difference between a skyscraper and a jar full of pennies is structure. all the work that goes into building a skyscraper must be undone in order for it to function like a pile of pennies. the only way to do that fast is ... preplanned, preset controlled demolition.
there has been considerable speculation among the truth community about the next big move "they" will take on this. the NIST report seems to have toned down the building 7 squawk for the time being, but if you haven't seen the larry silverstein interview, i suggest taking a look at it. silverstein, who came into ownership of the wtc shortly before 9/11 along with a big, generous insurance package (coinkydink? ignore, ignore, deny, deny ...), admits on camera that the building was pulled. the really, really big problem with that is that buildings don't get pulled over the course of an afternoon. it requires considerable engineering, analysis and presetting. but, heck, nobody ever went broke banking on the stupidity of the american people, right? and this suckah sure did some banking.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 11:07am PT
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it's funny, but the sides people take on 9/11 are so often tied to their personal beliefs, very often about god and country, which is one reason this thread got started in the belief-in-god thread. it isn't so much the specifics of one's belief, but the way it hitches to what's around it. being an atheist as far as you christian westerners are concerned, i couldn't care less about jesus watching over his minion america. but when i told one of my brothers about this--the supercatholic paleoconservative--he had no problem. "the john birch society has been telling us for years that the government is out to screw us." the other brother, a much mellower catholic into a suburban lifestyle greatly dependent on a secure job programming for the investment industry, leaves the room when this talk starts up.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 11:10am PT
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Gibberish Tony.
Large portions of the core stood for a while after the rest of the building collapsed.
And accumulating mass not a factor? WTF, Tony.
BTW, I did not post the penny jar stuff. Try to focus.
And post the video showing the collapse accelerated faster then gravity.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 11:13am PT
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got a picture of THAT, mono?
you're still not getting it. three parts to the structure. it was fairly pancake-proof. the only way to overcome it was to break the vertical strength floor by floor, which is exactly what we see in the videos. normal pancaking, your collapse scenario, would have shorn those connections. the core and the shell were quite strong vertically, where they had to be. nothing near that remained.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 11:15am PT
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It's right in front of your face, Tony.
And where's that video showing the collapse accelerated faster then gravity?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 11:17am PT
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in front of our faces i see lots of dust--and maybe something sticking upward--can't tell what it is, but if it's a single column from the core, it's proving my point, not yours.
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