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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 23, 2010 - 08:47am PT
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Klimmer, do you have any understanding of either [generalized] ion drives (the "Biefeld-Brown" effect) or of scramjets? The idea that they'd be used together in a single vehicle is pretty ridiculous given the requirements of a) weight of the power supply [for the electorstatic antigravity] and b) the inability to transition from one drive system to the other (extra credit for rokjox for explaining the problem with transitioning the methods of propulsion).
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2010 - 09:35pm PT
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At this very moment we are now using an "Out of this World" (NASA's words) Zenon Ion-Propulsion Engine for the NASA Mission "Dawn."
It generates the force of about the weight (W=mg) of a piece of paper, but in the vacuum of space and in the micro-gravity or zero-g environment of space, and left on continiously for long periods of time, it can generate enourmous speeds. It will generate a constant acceleration that will enable it to achieve the greatest speeds of any publically "known" spacecraft/probe we have sent to space so far.
"Dawn" is on its way to investigate/image/map Asteroid 4 Vesta and (Dwarf Planet) Asteroid Ceres. It is on it's way now.
Great film with Leonard Nimoy narrating and it gets into this technology . . .
Dawn Mission Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5412000236766165719&hl=en#
There have been many insiders that have come out to say we are indeed doing it, and that we have back-engineered Alien technology. I'm inclined to believe them. They risk a great deal to do so, namely their lives. Some have said, we possess the technology now to take ET home.
I don't doubt it.
Do I understand the physics of it? No. Would I like too? Of course. Who wouldn't? However, if I did, then I would be fabulously rich and famous, and at the top of the Shadow Government's "Poop-list," because Zero-point Energy, Anti-gravity etc., these technologies can revolutionize the World and bring about clean, limitless, renewable, and affordable energy that the World so desperately needs. I would make sure that the World would get it.
Those who have this technology are hording it for their own selfish and dark intentions of power and greed. That isn't right.
There are many who have come out and said these technologies exist, some people are trying to get to these technologies to help mankind.
This is what the Orion Project is all about:
http://www.theorionproject.org/en/index.html
http://www.theorionproject.org/en/video_intro.html
Introduction: An overview of the project (7:57)
The Scientists: A discussion of the Scientists in the Orion Project network
(5:10)
The Transition: A discussion of issues surrounding the transition to a clean energy society (4:39)
The Suppression: A discussion of the suppression of clean energy technologies historically (7:22)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld%E2%80%93Brown_effect
http://www.disclosureproject.org/
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2010 - 10:59pm PT
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What do you guys not get?
At the 7 min. mark in the NASA video on Dawn it gives the acceleration rate.
a = 60mph/4 days = 15mph/1 day
So plug and chug gentleman,
v = at
In the video they say let's say it thrusts for "4000 days" at that acceleration rate . . .
Q: What would be the instantaneous speed of the "Dawn" spacecraft wise-guys?
v = (15mph/1 day) (4000 days)
v = 60,000 mph
or to put it another way, you could go to the Moon in 4 hours!
Yes, it says it would be the fastest spacecraft we have flown. I would add that we have "officially" flown.
Klimmer - do you think it would help you think about these things to learn at least a bit of high school-level physics? Or do you think that is unnecessary?
Mike B,
Take a physics class please.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2010 - 11:16pm PT
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Yes, and apparently that Zenon Ion-propulsion engine (which is really on the small size) can thrust for a very, very long time if it wants to, or not. Pretty neat technology, and we can do that right now.
What do you think we can do in the secret back room of the Black-Op World?
Like "they" say, we can now take ET home. I do not doubt it.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2010 - 11:59pm PT
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Another way of looking at the speed of the NASA Mission Dawn . . .
If Dawn had accelerated up to a speed of 60,000mph it could go from Earth to Mars 36,000,000 miles away (at the closest position = opposition) in only 600 hours = 25 days. Wow!
But again, that must be snail speed to such technology as "Aurora" or to TR-3B.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_(aircraft);
http://www.tr-3b.com/
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 24, 2010 - 12:41am PT
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Well, one of the nice thing about physics is they apply the same in everyone's room here on Earth. There are no 'back' or 'black' or any other kinds of government rooms where physics works differently than in my office here.
And there's a reason ion drives are used for nano thruster and and long-range space mission applications - they are highly efficient, even if they produce very low thrust. They are so low thrust in fact that no ion drive has or will ever be able to lift it's own power supply off the ground unless someone comes up with a high energy power supply that weighs nothing.
That's what makes things like the 'TR-3B' and 'nuclear powered anti-gravity fleets' utterly perposterous - ion drives can't produce enough thrust to lift nuclear material off the ground, let alone a shielded reactor. And the way ion drive lift demonstrators work - aside from being tethered to their power supply sitting on the floor - is by producing a downward flow of ions which interact or 'push against' air.
And that 'push against' the air is the second problem with the 'TR-3B'; air gets thinner as you go up so there's less to push against. I.e. even if one could lift its own power supply it would be a low altitude craft at best. Which leads to the third problem for the very idea of an ion / scramjet hybrid; scramjets are designed to work at very high, rarified altitudes and at very, very high speeds where they can compress and combust that rarefied air. So that third problem is that even if your ion drive could 'levitate' a craft to high altitudes, which it can't, you'd still need a very high thrust propulsion system to get you to the extreme mach speed threshold where you could initiate ramjet combustion.
So wrapping it up, your 'TR-3B' would have to have three - count'em three - propulsion systems just to fly within our atmosphere - one to lift it to high altitude, one to get it up to ramjet combustion speeds, and a scramjet to operate at high mach speeds. And of course you'd need a fourth propulsion system if you wanted to operate at suborbital or orbital heights above the planet surface.
All ridiculous - particularly the idea of an essentially safe, nearly weightless supply of almost infinite and inexhaustible power to run it. Ed would be a better one to address it, but the last time I checked there is no place in the observable universe where energy is 'free' and that's what you guys keep talking about.
There are no doubt hyper-competent, black op guberment climbers putting up 5.18s in the Valley too. I mean Klimmer, is there any point at which common sense, let alone rational thought, ever reaches the same status as belief in your life and world? Seems to me in the looping triad of 'thinking-feeling-believing' you're really giving short shrift to the 'thinking' leg of the equation.
P.S. Here's humanity's state-of-the-art in hypersonic propulsion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-51
and
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2010/02/28/australians-lead-international-consortium-mach-8-scramjet/
And these essentially just engine tests that are simply trying to show (according to the USAF) that a scramjet "achieving hypersonic thrust isn't just luck". They don't involve what it would take to develop an airframe and leading edges which could withstand the heat involved, and they definitely involve zero manuvering capability which we haven't even gotten to.
P.P.S. Oh and there is no such thing as a "Magnetic Field Disruptor" - punch that in google and let me know if you can find a single, peer-reviewed paper on MFD science among the first 20 circle jerk pages of conspiracy links.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2010 - 02:41am PT
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HJ,
Do I have to re-post all the posts from NASA Astronauts, US Military enlisted and Officers, Scientists, Politicians, and all the eye-witness accounts etc., and foreign government disclosed records of the UFO/Alien phenomenon that all say differently?
They say UFOs/Aliens do exist, and that we have back engineered some of their technology and "We now have the technology to take ET home."
You are purporting to know more than these very individuals who know exactly what they are talking about, since they have seen it, touched it, worked on it, and have been debriefed on it, and now they are disclosing it. And they are doing so even though they face possible harm in so many different ways.
You are purporting to know that this technology can't exist because it does not fit into your very poor and limited understanding of Physics.
What ever they show and admit publically, they are at least 50 years ahead secretly. I haven't said that, many who are disclosing and know are saying that.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 24, 2010 - 02:55am PT
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Do you ever think for yourself, or is your entire life built around believing what other people have 'said' or supposedly have said?
Pretty simple, verifiable statements in my last post, they shouldn't be difficult concepts for a highschool teacher to check and understand. Again, show me a single link to a peer-reviewed paper on MFD technology - just one. Or to any peer-reviewed paper that validates any 'anti-gravity' mechanism.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2010 - 09:33am PT
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HJ,
Yea, that is how the Black-Op World works (hint sarcasm ahead), they publish their findings, discoveries, and newly discovered technologies that they exploit, in Scientific peer reviewed journals for the World to see.
Yea, that is how they maintian secrecy and maintian a 50 + year leap with technology over the rest of the World.
C'mon, even the things we now know about that are in the public domain that were developed at Area 51, Groom Lake, such as the SR-71 etc. they had the technological ability to do it long before it became public knowledge. There are many cases of this. Many.
Do you think they have stopped? Perhaps they now give Open House Tours of Area 51, Groom Lake, and Papoose Lake facilities, Skunk Works etc. I bet they even raise money now by doing bake sells to do all of these Black-Op projects.
Let me know when the next Open House to all these secret facilities takes place, I would like to go. I'm pretty good at looking around the corner, asking questions, and pulling the cover sheets off of things.
I can just see it now, "Now how come we can't go in that building over there and look completely through it? I thought this was a full disclosure Open House. Man, I want my bus fare given back . . . this tour sucks eggs. You guys said we could go anywhere we wanted . . . (lol). Now we can only go in certain buildings, and then only with an escort? C'mon man! Where are the Alien Spacecrafts and EBE bodies? C'mon give it up. Oh, and I'd like to see Aurora and the TR-3B while we are at it."
As the Tour Guides nervously look at each other, and then say to the Tour "Sorry, that stuff doesn't exist."
From the back of the crowd, "You wouldn't lie to us now would you?"
No response from the Area 51, Groom Lake, and Papoose Facility Tour Guides. Tour Guide: "How about these bake sale cookies and brownies? Pretty good huh? Let's keep moving along people, nothing to see here."
Tour Guide thinks to himself, . . . Man, damn Teachers always asking too many questions.
(Lol)
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2010 - 09:42am PT
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HFCS and Pate,
Post up your real names.
Post up what cities you live in.
Post up your jobs and employment locations.
Post up your professional licenses and credentials.
If religious bigots and science ignorant people like you can not do so, then I will use your own special phrase against you both . . .
"You are weak sauce."
HFCS I doubt seriously you could last a day in a HS classroom. You would offend someone just by being you, you're offensive personality would come screaming through, and you would be fired. That, or you would offend a student's personal faith and be immediatley canned, along with a lawsuit from the ACLU following.
Pate your taste of profanity and porn that you continually post, you couldn't even get a teaching credential. You couldn't even make it through the door. In fact, they would probably start an investigation on you knowing all the profanity and soft-porn you continually post here.
So how about it guys? Post-up the information I requested or go away. ST would be the better, either way. I'm sure many here on ST would like to know who could be so vile on ST, yet they can't ever post their real names or any personal data.
Someone knows who you are. Maybe if you won't, they will. It would only be fair don't you think?
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Good question?!?!?!?!?
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May 24, 2010 - 10:31am PT
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Me thinks Klimmer is getting extra credit marks for keeping this insanity alive.
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2010 - 01:28pm PT
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Modern space travel now-a-days is the equivalent of cave men.
In the real old days yogis traveled through out the material universes without mechanical means.
Cave men and their peer reviews are just that,
Cave men puffed up and proud of their stone tools ......
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2010 - 01:47pm PT
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Mike Bolte said . . .
Klimmer - why have you ignored Helios 2? It used space-time distortions to reach speeds of 150,000 mph. I could post dozens of links about it. How come you are not talking about that? Even little Voyager 1 used the same space-time distortions to accelerate to nearly 40,000 mph (homework for the reader - 40,000 mph with respect to what?). You are completely silent on this even though the Government and the NASA/DOD partnership have disclosed it publicly. What is up with that?
Surely there is no way those plodding government engineers and scientists could have perfected space-time distortion drive (STDD) without having picked up the blueprints at the base on the other side of the moon.
You may be absolutely right Mike, I do not know about the 2 projects that you mention and their relative speeds that are already in the public domain. Never, claimed to know it all. Far from it. I learn everday.
However, the NASA Dawn video did make the claim it would be the fastest, I didn't make the claim. Perhaps they are wrong? I just took them at their word.
I would be interested in reading articles relating to the 2 projects you name and their respective relative speeds.
HJ,
What is sooo special about the Zenon Ion-propulsion engine are the facts that follow:
low mass engine, low mass fuel tank holding Zenon but which is plenty of fuel for the Ion-propulsion engine for very long duration, and continous very, very efficient thrusts, via Newton's 3rd and 2nd laws working in harmony. Newton's 3rd Law: Action and Reaction, and Newton's 2nd Law: a=F/m clearly explains the acceleration motion of Dawn (or any spaceship in the vacuum of space), with ionized Zenon flying out the back at enormous accelerations, yet the Dawn spacecraft accelerating forward at about 15mph/day. Same force acting on 2 very different masses, results in 2 very different accelerations: ionized-zenon with very high constant and continious acceleration out the back, and the Dawn spacecraft at very low constant and continious accelerations moving forward.
Shut it off and the spacecraft moves through space all via Newton's 1st Law: Inertia.
(Why do I teach during my duty free prep? Why?)
Edit:
By the way, the above description simply using Newton's 3 Laws of Motion only applies to conventional thrust spacecraft (however means we do it). It would not apply to any spacecraft that purports anti-gravity technology or something similiar that more than likely then would also distort Space-Time. What can distort Space-Time? Gravity.
Now how do they do this? I don't know. That is the crux. However, the evidence seems to suggest that "they" have, and we have also done so now by back-engineering "their" technology.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 24, 2010 - 01:56pm PT
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I'll take that as a "no, I can't think for myself". Nothing in my post was all that difficult to deal with, but you obviously prefer links to thinking for yourself. Somewhat amazing and it wouldn't seem like a mindset or mental orientation that would lend itself well to the sharp end of a rope.
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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May 24, 2010 - 01:58pm PT
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Bump to a 1000!!!!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 24, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
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Staying alive on the sharp end of a rope requires a mindset of independent thinking that I haven't seen much in evidence in Klimmer's approach to all these various topics. You on the other hand, do appear to try to actually sort some of this stuff out for yourself even if you do it with a fairly optimistic bias relative to the 'possibilities'.
I'm generally fairly pragmatic and find human accomplishment stellar and miraculous all by itself - no gods, aliens, or reincarnates required thank you. Klimmer's whole spew on every topic is that 'someone else' - some more 'intelligent', higher-order entity and authority - is the only reason humans get by. I personally find that insulting to the efforts of the brilliant men and women who toil every day to provide us with the knowledge and understanding we currently possess.
It's all religious belief with a scifi wrapping that obviously renders him incapable of reasoning in any basic way about the very topics he raises. Ion drives, scramjets, etc., all just words apparently devoid any tangible meaning that can be reasoned about. I mean, for example, doesn't the very idea of a scramjet seem more than a little bit desperate and arcane if you did in fact have a lightweight, inexhaustible power source? Wouldn't you just scrap the whole crude, rube goldberg scramjet concept pretty much immediately?
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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May 24, 2010 - 06:16pm PT
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#995 close enough, just five short
For God’s sake: Hail! Mary full of grace, help me find a parking place.
Klimmer you wrote:
“Do I understand the physics of it? No. Would I like too? Of course. Who wouldn't? However, if I did, then I would be fabulously rich and famous, and at the top of the Shadow Government's "Poop-list," because Zero-point Energy, Anti-gravity etc., these technologies can revolutionize the World and bring about clean, limitless, renewable, and affordable energy that the World so desperately needs. I would make sure that the World would get it.
Those who have this technology are hording it for their own selfish and dark intentions of power and greed. That isn't right.
There are many who have come out and said these technologies exist, some people are trying to get to these technologies to help mankind.”
https://lasers.llnl.gov/
It has it’s controversies but hey! What doesn’t?
Upper right hand corner LIFE
They have tours but don’t apply for a job; you need something a little higher than a high school education to qualify.
Also comment on what you said:
‘Tour Guide thinks to himself, . . . Man, damn Teachers always asking too many questions.”
Understand that if you go to the ”Men”s room, NIF personal drop their secret encrypted papers that look exactly the same shape and colour of paper towels in towel bin that you wash your hands with to get messages out for space alien pickup. [Similar to spook’s dead/dead letter box]
So go in, take or fake, but look like you took a pee. Then go wash your hands, take a paper towel from the dispensary, walk to the trash bin to throw towel away, make sure your back is turned facing the camera so that they will not see you stealing them. Grab 12 -15 of them. Now that you have them in your pocket, walk out, join the tour, and ask your questions ………….
When you get home take some lemon juice add water and then soak your used paper towel that you so nicely grabbed. Wait a couple seconds, image will come up. You will need a camera because it will fade, then disappear in less than10 seconds. Remember Image will be encrypted but understand that they use bible code so you should not have a problem un-encrypting it.
When you get it, post it up. Depends on when you go on the tour and getting back home. I will be looking for it around Post #7,500 or so.
Oh! By the way don’t tell anyone about above web site: NIF is a secret Government program for “Your Eyes Only”.
Klimmer: Stop searching and start learning
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2010 - 06:32pm PT
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healyje -- "Staying alive on the sharp end of a rope requires a mindset of independent thinking ...."
Klimmer is still alive, so your logic is definitely skewed.
Ho man .....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 24, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
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Unless it doesn't really happen since he's been overwhelmed by aliens.
And what about you? You're a quasi-guberment man - why the witholding of data and info on all the 5.18s that have been getting put up in the Valley by black op and alien climbing teams.
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2010 - 07:20pm PT
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Oh now ... just see ...
Your guessing and speculating again.
Your mind is running amok again and you have lost control of it.
Independent thinking requires full masterful control of the mind .....
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