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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:04pm PT
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I don't think anyone is going to dispute the pain that those who suffer from depression face. Yes, it is very real, very dark, and very debilitating. Sometimes therapy and medicine help, sometimes not.
But what doesn't seem to be coming across between the two sides of this discussion is that the act of suicide takes the pain of the person who took their life, and inflicts that pain on others. That pain is just as real as the depression, but many if not most times much harder to deal with. It doesn't matter if the suicide is "messy", "clean" or the person disapears w/o a trace, the pain remains with the living.
No matter how alone one may feel, none of us are alone, and every one of our lives has an impact on other's lives, even if we are incapable of seeing or comprehending that.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
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What vanity!
If half of mankind disappeared the planet would be infinitely healthier (and in the end more people could thrive on it through time).
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
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Faced with the truly unknown and the vastness of eternity it seems to me that it takes courage to kill yourself. Maybe courage born of despair but courage nonetheless. My heart goes out to those that face that curse.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:20pm PT
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Why ask? Doesn't using that imply you don't care?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:25pm PT
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This may have been stated earlier but it seems like a lot of work to hike all the way up to there, experience all that beautiful creation and huck yourself off. If it was or wasnt a suicide it's all a terrible shame.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:56pm PT
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As Werner stated, we are not owners of our physical bodies. Thus we do not have the right to destroy it, ever.
I wonder who you think your masters are?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
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I've got not one thing against the Mexicans peacefully re-occupying the land that was stolen from them by the US (which includes where I've lived for 38 years).
I wish my own people were able to do the same.
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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We conflate our absurdly incomplete information into complete knowledge - we conclude that the information that we're working with is the same as the information that others a're working with - we know what we're talking about, you're full of sh#t - I'm OK, you're not OK. Maybe it helps us feel better about ourselves, to judge, criticize, and condemn others. La dee da dee da dee da. No Half Dome for me - aren't I special.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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I am a friend of the family, and I spoke with the Mother of the deceased. She does not think it was a suicide, but an accident. In this case, it may be that they cannot determine one way or the other, so I hope that ends the debates on this thread.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:07pm PT
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Sorry to hear it.
Remember to be careful out there.
edit; RA,
no they weren't very nice.
Who was?
Dump the welfare state and the minimum wage and let the noncriminal in.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
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Condolences to friends and family.
When I went to look down from the edge of Diving Board, I carefully approached on hands and knees;
no way was I gonna stand anywhere near the precipice...
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:17pm PT
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This is the reason that to try to approach this with logic and reason doesn't work, any more than it does to have a deep intellectual discussion with someone who is profoundly drunk or high. . . .
. . . or posting on st.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:21pm PT
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Doug, very sorry for your loss.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
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So it was likely an accident. I'm sorry for the loss.
Last year I hiked out to Dewey point. There is one exposed move to make to get completely out onto the point. It is an easy move, but still I slipped and almost went over a 1000 foot plus cliff. With my history, I would have been declared a suicide.
I'm sorry again for the loss.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:44pm PT
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but reality ain't meant to always be easy...
How can you say this if there is no creator? How could reality mean anything? It would just be.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
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No worries.. and the snowboarding comment was funny.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
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I too crawled onto the diving board. Twice.
I've climbed that wall twice and crawled onto the diving board both times, fearing a sudden gust or updraft......
So sorry for his family.
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