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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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There is a certain momentum to victory ... and to defeat.
Our Presidents Waterloo happens tomorrow night Sept 9 2009.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Corniss wrote: there is a certain momentum to victory ... and to defeat.
Our Presidents Waterloo happens tomorrow night Sept 9 2009. wrote:
Of course Bush can survive 9/11, torture, one of most corrupt government ever, huge deficits, WMD, invading a sovereign country and 700 billion give away to his banking buddy and you think Obama going down because of his speech...and you wonder why the republican party is so out of touch.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Bob -you're misreading the political situation. The speech does not really matter.
It's already looked upon as a hail mary pass and by making it demonstrates he's lost the argument for government controlled health care.
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apogee
climber
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cchopper, you are probably overly optimistic about the failure, too. I would agree that it is highly unlikely that Obama's speech tomorrow will include a strong mandate for a public option- more likely, it will be some kind of insurance co-op arrangement. Staying with a true public option will have the Blue Dogs (aka DINO's) running for the door, no doubt about it.
Obama's best opportunity for real reform is long gone- months ago, he should have dispensed with all that 'team of adversaries' BS and just gave the Repugs the finger they deserve, and move forward with real reform.
We are likely to see, at best, a baby step towards a proper solution- universal healthcare- in the form of these insurance co-ops. The Repugs will spin this as a 'Waterloo' failure and celebrate their psycho-fear tactics, and the Dems will characterize it as a victory, which will be true only in the smallest sense. Nonetheless, Obama will have made far more progress on the issue than Clinton or any other POTUS has made in history. As tiny as that success may be, I suppose that's something worth recognizing.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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"Judge me by the people I surround myself with" BHO
Well, so far he's surrounded himself with Marxists, tax cheats, lobbyists, felons, terrorists, pandering interest groups and kooks.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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At least one lefty understands the mood of the country
How has "liberty" become the inspirational code word of conservatives rather than liberals? (A prominent example is radio host Mark Levin's book "Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto," which was No. 1 on the New York Times bestseller list for nearly three months without receiving major reviews, including in the Times.) I always thought that the Democratic Party is the freedom party -- but I must be living in the nostalgic past. Remember Bob Dylan's 1964 song "Chimes of Freedom," made famous by the Byrds? And here's Richie Havens electrifying the audience at Woodstock with "Freedom! Freedom!" Even Linda Ronstadt, in the 1967 song "A Different Drum," with the Stone Ponys, provided a soaring motto for that decade: "All I'm saying is I'm not ready/ For any person, place or thing/ To try and pull the reins in on me."
But affluent middle-class Democrats now seem to be complacently servile toward authority and automatically believe everything party leaders tell them. Why? Is it because the new professional class is a glossy product of generically institutionalized learning? Independent thought and logical analysis of argument are no longer taught. Elite education in the U.S. has become a frenetic assembly line of competitive college application to schools where ideological brainwashing is so pandemic that it's invisible. The top schools, from the Ivy League on down, promote "critical thinking," which sounds good but is in fact just a style of rote regurgitation of hackneyed approved terms ("racism, sexism, homophobia") when confronted with any social issue. The Democratic brain has been marinating so long in those clichés that it's positively pickled.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/09/09/healthcare/
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apogee
climber
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You can't make him a Socialist because it suits you.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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What about his socialism so disturbs you?
He clearly describes it in his two autobiographies as well as his discipleship at the feet of several Marxists.
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apogee
climber
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Like so many other critical domestic and social issues, change will come, slowly and inexorably. Down the road, after xx years of insurance co-ops, and the continued dominance of the corporate insurance world, all of the shortcomings and inequities will once again rise up. By that time, those old, white, resistant-to-change guys (i.e. TGT, bluering, cchopper, chaz, etc) will either be dead or so brain dead on GOP kool-aid that they will be incapable of getting themselves to the voting booth.
Change will come, you idiots. Stay where you are, and die (you won't be missed). Society and history will look back at you and laugh with pity.
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apogee
climber
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fattrad, you never answered my questions from earlier today:
Well, I realize my question is a pretty subjective one, but do you think there is a country on earth that is more strongly capitalist than the US?
In your mind, would the implementation of a public health insurance system be the bright line that would define us as a truly Socialist country by definition? Or would we still be 'moderately' capitalist?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apogee writes:
"...those old, white, resistant-to-change guys (i.e. TGT, bluering, cchopper, chaz, etc) will either be blah blah blah"
I may be old and white, but "resistant-to-change" I'm certainly not.
A moderate level of reading comprehension would have told you that.
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apogee
climber
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fattrad, answer the questions, huh?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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"Well, so far he's surrounded himself with Marxists, tax cheats, lobbyists, felons, terrorists, pandering interest groups and kooks."
For a second I thought you were going to knock a democrat. Keep the last administration out of this!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Hmm!
No response to Paglia?
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Is there a Dr.F. in the house?
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apogee
climber
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fattrad, do you really believe that, even if the US adopted a truly universal healthcare/public insurance model, that it would inevitably lead to becoming prime example of a Socialist country? Doesn't that strike you as completely unrealistic, paranoid, and with no faith whatsoever in the strengths of a capitalist system?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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"Change will come"....... Heres to Hope.
In the meantime, 1.5 million people will go bankrupt each year and more then half of them will be because of health problems.
Beyond that, who knows how many people will not get health treatments they need because they cant afford them,
Plus how many will keep jobs they hate because they have to keep their health insurance going or risk bankruptcy because they have a pre existing condition and changing jobs would put them with a different insurance which would mean they would risk losing their insurance coverage or they would have to wait out a waiting period for a pre existing condition and thus not get something treated that needs to be treated pronto, such as skin cancer. Which we had a prime example of here on the Taco.
And How many folks can't get health insurance because they have pre existing conditions.
And the list goes on..
Hurray for America..
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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If you're going to get insurance, you do it before you get "pre existing conditions".
That's the whole idea behind insurance, betting on the future.
You can still get *healthcare* with pre-existing conditions, you may have to pay for it yourself but you can still get it.
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apogee
climber
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"If you're going to get insurance, you do it before you get "pre existing conditions"."
Nice job, Chaz- you just proved yourself the clueless idjut most of us know that you are.
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