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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Believe me John, I don't in any way hold the Democrats up as paragons of virtue in this regard. I think this entire process has been a shameful and discouraging display.
Grass roots my ass.
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apogee
climber
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blue, this is what your post said:
"The WHO survey (from the year 2000) that indicates the US healthcare ranks 37th in the world is not accurate."
It is accurate. The report did, indeed, say exactly that. Your post stated that the ranking was inaccurate, and you are wrong.
Now you are changing your angle on this, trying to invalidate the report outright. Fine, I would expect a kool-aid guzzler to do exactly that. I'm sure you have a 'source' that will make your point exactly- don't bother posting it, 'cause it's sure to be PAC-created bullsh*t.
I'm done spinning around with you on your error. I'm sure Chaz is always game for a little GOP-sturbation, though, when he gets back from kite flying.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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I hope that we Americans will take care of are citizens that truly can't care for themselves . All group insurance rates are lower than individual policies to make them cost less. There could be medical coops. I paid for my own med. ins. before I got a job with some.
Calif. is going to raise state tax and the National is already off the charts.
I work by for an hourly wage and I've been putting money into Deferred Comp for some years now, and I'm wondering the way things are going that when I start to withdraw it, instead of paying 27% tax now, I'll be paying 50% to bail the government out?
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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No, the bottom line is that we are the only western country that does not provide health care to it's citizens. The bottom line is that the lastest right wing "socialism" shtick is McCarthyism.
Life in the PAST lane, surely make you lose your mind.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Obama's Handlers will give him something to read off the Tele-prompter tomorrow, just to make him feel like he's still running things.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sounds like FatTrad may be shorting stock in health insurance companies?
Obama seems to have pretty much isolated the tatters of the Republicans, and their corporate owners. They're proven they're not willing to play fair - indeed, to play at all - so time to move on without them.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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"But the Baucus plan also includes the fines that Obama has rejected. In what appeared to be a sign of tension, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs pointedly noted that the administration had not received a copy of the plan before it leaked to LOBBYISTS and news media Tuesday"
Like I said, its all out there in the open, not that there was ever any doubt who Baucus is working for.
Of course thats how it should be, those with the most money get to make the policy.,...right John?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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JL wrote: Most of the "tea party" types I've met distrust both parties equally, and have a well-founded fear that any of the proposals the Democrats have put on the table threaten to reduce their care, raise their taxes or costs, or both.
Considering that folks with insurance DO NOT have give of their insurance and as stated by Obama those making under $250.000 a year won't get raise in taxes their claims are not founded in reality.
Jeremy horror stories like that happen everyday in the US, with the private health care system being one of the leading causes of deaths.
Ignorance is bliss...lot of blissful whack jobs running around.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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"The WHO survey (from the year 2000) that indicates the US healthcare ranks 37th in the world is not accurate."
It is accurate. The report did, indeed, say exactly that. Your post stated that the ranking was inaccurate, and you are wrong.
So if the report says so it must be? Don't you understand the very method used to assemble the data is inaccurate?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Anders wrote: Obama seems to have pretty much isolated the tatters of the Republicans, and their corporate owners. They're proven they're not willing to play fair - indeed, to play at all - so time to move on without them.
I said that about two thousand post ago. Can't wait for the speech tomorrow. A big middle finger to the republicans.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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"Sounds like FatTrad may be shorting stock in health insurance companies"
Time to go long then.
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apogee
climber
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"They're proven they're not willing to play fair - indeed, to play at all - so time to move on without them.... Can't wait for the speech tomorrow. A big middle finger to the republicans."
I hope you aren't seriously expecting such a big, partisan statement tomorrow, Bob, 'cause it is extremely unlikely. More likely, Obama is going to try to refocus the issue, and suggest or endorse some kind of co-op arrangement. The public option appears to be well off the table. His efforts to remove partisanship should have been abandoned months ago if any kind of true reform had any hope.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Apogee...I think the public option is still on the table...why in who name does Obama think getting one republican vote (Snow) is worth dropping it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Obama's centrism is somewhat annoying but he's always been like that, it should be no surprise.
That's pretty funny. Judging his Senate voting record paints a different picture.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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The arguments for adopting universal care are clean and incontrovertible, despite all the horror stories (which I guarantee are overblown) about poor Australians being left to die of readily curable cancer. I ran that one by a friend of mind who is a doctor in Perth and he said such a thing never happens unless the case in totally hopless.
Remember, many arguing against this are not doing so for any rational "reason," but because of the underlying and unconscious factors I mentioned yesterday. Of course this will be adamantly denied, even as they fit the cirteria to the letter.
In short, arguing with that far right group is a waste of words. Better to discuss things with folks who have something to add that is sane and well reasoned, that that alarmist dross ringing way out right on Queer Street.
JL
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Let me know when you go long Fats....I got a pile on the sidelines....
"based on what I'm reading, the health insurers should rocket tomorrow".
Well thats a bad sign... but hey...who cares whats good for the country, as long as the health insurers get some fat profits.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Ricky, an independent group indicated he's very liberal, not me.
I think you prolly know this too. He's actually THE MOST LIBERAL in their rating....that's far from a centrist.
Nice try though...
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WBraun
climber
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Huh?
"Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as divisions among Democrats undercut President Barack Obama's effort to regain traction on his health care overhaul."
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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If you say he is a socialist enough times
will that be all it takes to make it true?
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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"Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as divisions among Democrats undercut President Barack Obama's effort to regain traction on his health care overhaul."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-ap-us-health-care-overhaul,0,6777107.story
"Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as divisions among Democrats undercut President Barack Obama's effort to regain traction on his health care overhaul.
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The latest proposal: a ten-year, $900-billion bipartisan compromise that Baucus, who heads the influential Finance Committee, was trying to broker. It would guarantee coverage for nearly all Americans, regardless of medical problems.
But the Baucus plan also includes the fines that Obama has rejected."
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