Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
ED thanks that's a great link i'm savin it. Fascinating!
Or even more, how do we get a "martensitic state" from a bunch of atoms arranged in a particular order?
i guess it's heat that would cause the atoms in something like a stamped out car fender to hold it's order? Then the mold would be the contributor to the fenders form.
We must be imitating something in nature?
When we look at basalt columns, what's the contributor to the hexagon shape?
Do you think HalfDome lost some martensitic state when the 11th pitch bivy ledge fell off?
|
|
MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
|
|
I was thinking more of the universal, objective aspects and phenomenon of mind. This is, IME, where the teacher earns his keep.
Also the accountant and the undertaker.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Ed: It would sound like so much woo but for the fact that the theory works well enough to develop and manufacture materials, based on the understanding of the interaction of the constituents... and these materials are used by all of us without knowing anything about these details (sort of like the dark ages...).
:-) Thanks, Ed. I sort of can, but I cannot say it. (I’m afraid that I’d say something grossly untechnical.)
I find myself attracted to the phrases: “the theory works well enough” and “materials are used by all of us without knowing anything about these details.” I’m hesitant to make more of them than what they are. I’ll just reiterate that there’s a fair amount of both going on everywhere. Theories can be immensely practical and expedient—I’ll give you that.
If you see a metaphor there, I’d like to hear about it from you.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Modern Mental Speculation in Action
Ironic it says "Life" at the bottom.
Life comes from life and never from matter ......
|
|
jogill
climber
Colorado
|
|
That photo reminds me that the excellent TV series Manhattan returns for season 2 this Fall. Professors and scientists frequently dressed like that at Ga Tech when I started in 1954.
However, philosophers wore togas.
|
|
MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
|
|
Ha ha. Philosophers probably had drunken Saturday night parties, too.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
I've never had a professor in grad school who ever wrote so legibly.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Those mental speculators couldn't even begin to speculate without the "Werner Ladders".
Thus it proves once again the superiority of intelligent design ......
:-)
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
The ladders are great, but they should be horizontal and about 7.5 feet above the ground. Otherwise they are useless.
;>)
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
|
tell us what and where meditation is.
Meditation is the art and discipline of being/staying present with our awareness. Awareness, like space, is non-local, though at first you will typically perceive it as happening between your ears (where else would it "be," right?), or wherever your ass is parked.
JL
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
Awareness, like space, is non-local . . . (JL)
If it is non-localized (field of awareness?) it should have considerable extent and with practice you should be able to remote view. Or do you mean non-local but confined to the body?
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
|
|
the problem is to find the right balance between modern speculation and ancient hooey
I do believe this is one of the major themes of our time. The problem is that each person and society sits in a different place on that spectrum. Think of the ongoing debates about Greece and its problems - how they got there and what to do about it.
Should we really live our lives by logic and bureaucracy and commercialism until it's Octoberfest and we allow ourselves a few days to get drunk (allotted hooey) or should we have more hooey, more passion and fewer rules every day? What is the purpose of it all anyway? And who should pay? And how?
What is the value of the past? Is it just a bunch of statues of old dead white men or is it important still in the present? What value pride? What value Sartre's existential no? Is there a truth worth pursuing or only economic advantage?
Or can we have both and how do we achieve that? The Europeans currently don't seem to have the answer, but still we strive on Supertopo.
|
|
MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
|
|
Meditation is the art and discipline of being/staying present with our awareness. Awareness, like space, is non-local, though at first you will typically perceive it as happening between your ears (where else would it "be," right?), or wherever your ass is parked.
Memories are awareness of past events. Vivid memories may be perceived as happening outside your head but they are typically not far from your ears.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Jan: The problem is that each person and society sits in a different place on that spectrum.[modern speculation and ancient hooey].
Gosh, I just can’t agree if I understand you correctly. It’s not a spectrum, although it looks that way. It’s multi-dimensional. There’s this, and there’s that, and there is all those other things.
I’m reminded of a scene in “Star Trek Into Darkness”:\
------
Pike: “That’s a technicality!”
Spock: “I am a Vulcan, Sir. We embrace technicalities.”
Pike: “Are you giving me attitude, Spock!?”
Spock: “I am expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously. Which one are you referring to?”
---------
That dialogue indicates not only how and what we are—it also points to why the world is what it is. We are expressing multiple attitudes all the time, and that's what creates the world we perceive. We can't be categorized along a continuum. As Whitman said:
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)
Or as Bohr said:
No, no, you’re not thinking. You’re just being logical.
In dramas, I find the perfect character is the one that doesn’t have “perfect personality,” but the one who presents a personality with no hesitation, perfectly spontaneous—truly complete. Fully and totally in the moment. As Shatner often did in the role.
I tell students: “Do your job! Be that!” It gets them out of their minds and tends to subordinate guile. There is nothing so determined and complete and sincere as a passionate visionary. It’s like living with the Gods.
MH2: Memories are awareness of past events.
Memories are imaginations. Awareness is always now. Just find another word.
|
|
MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
|
|
Awareness is always now.
We often stall when we try to agree on what a thing is. A good way forward is to try to find what we can say about a thing that we both agree on.
Do you think that it would be possible to be aware of a memory in the now?
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2015 - 11:00am PT
|
Ed, I believe you are refering to the principle of locality, where an object is only directly influenced by its immediate surroundings.
Where I think you get turned around on all of this is that your mind ALWAYS goes to the content, the "object" previously mentioned, the thing, the stuff. Now if you switched to the mental field, if you will, and allowed the stuff to fall away, WHAT is left?
Dingus asks: If space is not a thing, then why is it so big? Then for some strange reason he wants to go to church?
"Local" is described by some object that is located at some point in time and space relative to some other point.
I would just point out the obsession of the discursive mind to try and objectify all phenomenon, including space - note Dingus calling space a thing. What you will find is that all eforts to defind space as a thing are in fact talking about properties that influence the stuff and objects and so forth IN space.
There also might be a conflit of terms here. For example, emptiness, in the Zen sense of the word, does not "bend." There is no-thing TO bend. But the phenomon in "mind" has been insightfully described in terms of gravity (ideas and thoughts sucked into the orbit of a feeling or feeling state - like sadness, paranoia, or even bliss), attractors, and so forth.
Again, terms of engagement are beginning to feel more and more crucial in this conversation. And getting clear on the objective perceptual aspects of awareness - which is the linchpin to everything from science to baseball - is surly the starting point.
JL
|
|
MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
|
|
note Dingus calling space a thing. What you will find is that all eforts to defind space as a thing
One thing to say, here: the word 'thing' is just a token. It does not necessarily imply objectification.
Another thing: anything said here has had a connection to the material physical world, whether or not you consider the thing itself to "be" material or physical.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
Any Tim Ferriss fans around here?
Here's Sam Harris on the Tim Ferriss podcast...
http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/07/08/sam-harris-on-daily-routines-the-trolley-scenario-and-5-books-everyone-should-read/
1 What are five books you think everyone should read? [6:53]
2 In The End of Faith, you briefly discuss the challenging reality of having children. Why did you decide to have children? [18:58]
3 Why have you stopped doing public debates? Who would you like to debate? [23:18]
4 Could you talk about one of your differences with Christopher Hitchens on? Specifically, his pro-life stance. [29:03]
5 What fact/event has made you change your mind recently? [32:53]
6 What are Sam Harris’s morning rituals? I would especially like to know his meditation rituals. [36:03]
7 If you had to recommend one thing for brain health outside meditation or exercise, what would that be? [46:18]
8 Your first book, The End of Faith, featured a blistering attack on religious moderates. Now you strive to encourage religious moderation in the Islamic world. Have you changed your mind on religious moderation? [49:48]
9 Would you push the fat man in the trolley scenario? Do you think a society could occupy a peak on the moral landscape if it’s inhabitants would all push the fat man? [55:28]
Podcasts... awesome emergent tech. Where were they 30 years ago?!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!