Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Mimi
climber
|
|
Anders, you need to back off of the nutmeg. It's getting late.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
what really gets lost here in these post 2000 stupidtopo threads is that you cannot look at this stuff TODAY, when climbing gyms and bolted craggs are the norm, and see this effort in the same light as it was seen in its era.
that's the agenda of the pro WoS FA clan, led proudly and loudly by pedro there.
in that time, in that era, to launch into a sea of granite with no natural features for protection, to drill every bit of protection you needed for what, 1300 ft or something(?), to manufacture what advancement you could muster (even if so very lightly so, still systematically so as well), that was a different thing then, it was not 2011.
you CANNOT GO BACK.
hard route, fine, great, super.
it was a climb in a certain era, and that era made it's own judgement.
there is no do-over.
all you can say now is that it's hard.
ammon mcneely is def a bad man on the big stone-
but nothing he or his partner say about this line is likely to get it more ascents, and nothing he or his partner say is going to change what the people of the time thought of the climb, the line, the effort, the tactics, or the end result.
fair?
unfair?
who knows.
doesn't matter.
that ship has sailed.
you cannot go back and call the gremlin or the pinto a totally way rad cool car either.
|
|
nick d
Trad climber
nm
|
|
I know you be trippin knocking the Gremlin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
Thanks, Matt.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
Yes, they probably took a whole day to put a belay in. They had so much gear, it is thought they chose to install five-bolt belays per pitch out of fear. If you were only there that day, if you didn't see they were at the belay, you might assume they were rampantly drilling up the route.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
probably sucks to have so much riding on someone else...humans are so dissapointing...oh well, adapt or perish...
They had so much gear, it is thought they chose to install five-bolt belays per pitch out of fear.
guys, for the sake of American Literature, run a spell check... Dysfunction ... I'm outraged...
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
treez, I thought your disfunction was nicely displayed in your last post. Glad you find mine interesting.
Back after this break from our sponsors.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
Back after this break from our sponsors.
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
Greg your wit and sense of humor crack me up!
Shouldn't you be getting to bed as to get up early and head up to Tahquitz? See ya up there.
Go Ammon and Kait!
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
...it is thought they chose to install five-bolt belays per pitch out of fear.
Jesus, it's like a decades long hit parade of lies and outright fabrications swaddled in innuendo and bilious slander that just doesn't quit. A veritable Mimi Coulter of stone - bravo, babe, bravo. We can wait on Ammon's take on it, but you can tell from the reports so far they've already debunked your screeching bullsh#t.
Maybe try screaming it louder - ok now, from the top, and a one, and a two, and a ...
|
|
Prod
Trad climber
|
|
Saturday morning coffee and WoS. Gotta love it.
I thought the "eye wittnesses" went up there at night, drunk or buzzed, tried to climb it a bit and failed, then chopped the route (pitch 1 and 2, causing the FA's to create the alternate start), and reported that it was a bolt ladder off the ground. These apparent liars, in my book, are guilty of a lot of the "local additude" toward the FA's.
Who were they?
My info is heresay, please inform me if I am mistaken about the events on the ground.
Prod.
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
|
|
"They had so much gear, it is thought they chose to install five-bolt belays per pitch out of fear."
and I heard that it took them so long and there was so much tapping because the follower back-cleaned bolts that the leader used to ascend. Chop and fill, chop and fill. Wonder how many of the holes Ammon will be able to find?
Oh, and I heard that they did it out of cowardice, not just fear. Ohhhhh...
I heard.... oh, I can't make up rumors as fast as Mimi. Mind you, she has been working on since the beginning, a third of her lifetime or so? Or has it been a half or more of her lifetime? 30 years?...
|
|
mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
|
|
Sounds like young and bold aid climbers are where it's AT...
...and crusty old, has beens is where it AIN'T !!!!1111
|
|
Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
|
|
Coz:
WELL PUT!!!
My thought exactly
|
|
east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
|
|
Gotta be pretty hot up on route , Hats off to Ammon and kate. You two are amazing climbers. GO!! Cheers
|
|
#1SuperMama
Social climber
Oakdale, Ca
|
|
Well...
..."tough day yesterday. Hottest one so far. The start of pitch six is really proud! Water streaming down right now and have to wait for it to dry. Ammon dislocated his shoulder after a fall, but was able to pop it back in place. I puked! (not from shoulder - haha) Ammon only got 30 or so feet up 'cuz water over the years has washed some of route smooth, glaciated in spots. Still hooking! At least three times as many hook placements as there are rivets. Hardly any bolts on route so far, only at anchors and maybe two or three on a pitch. Monotonous! We want it done already."
Kait and Ammon just want to get this epic over and done with. I can hear it in their voices. I kept wondering why they weren't hauling ass in the coolness of the morning shade - just too wet at times. He never wants to do this route again, so is hoping to just get it done.
Hopefully some pics will be taken tomorrow and posted.
P.S. Pete, they don't want to comment right now on what you wanted me to ask them (on your yesterday's P.S.S. to me)??? And we had poor reception?!?!
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
Will do. Saving my spot directly underneath you.
Firstly, I remain amazed with both Ammon's boldness and tenacity. When he climbed the first two pitches of the alternate start a few years ago, I remember him telling me that he considered the moves to be "samey" or "monotonous", these words being my paraphrase of what I recall him telling me several years back. He may also have used the word "boring" because of the repetitiveness of the moves. He also told me that these "monotonous" moves resulted in him taking three fifty-foot whippers!
Of the route's first two pitches this year, he told me that he had to make nearly every hook move from his top-steps, in order to find a [barely] hookable edge. The first pitch took him six hours to lead, and resulted in I believe he said three thirty-foot falls.
Now up on the fifth or six pitch, he has taken a fall so severe he dislocated his shoulder. A less motivated or tough individual would have bailed, but not Ammon - he merely popped his shoulder back into place and carried on.
I marvel that Ammon should describe such climbing as "monotonous!" But I also get it. I verily doubt that he will come down describing the climbing on Wings of Steel, or the route itself, as "classic". Perhaps he may describe it as "contrived"? Fair enough. Perhaps it could be called "a classic of its own kind"? This of course similar to being "a legend in one's own mind."
No matter. It is what it is. The one word he won't be able to use is "easy". This route appears to be as hard as they come. Because if a climber as experienced as Ammon takes so long to climb it, and takes as many falls as he does, you know it's got to be sick-desperate-hard.
So bravo on Ammon for sticking it out!
Annie, please give Ammon our best wishes for continued success, and no matter what - NO MATTER WHAT - please finish the damn route. Others have climbed as high as he has, and have subsequently bailed due to difficulty, exhaustion, lack of time, heat, or whatever. Remind Ammon of the substantial bounty of plunder that awaits his return to terra firma, and to keep on keepin' on til he completes the route NO MATTER WHAT.
Here is my P.P.S. from yesterday:
P.P.S. Annie - please ask if they have seen any signs of enhanced or chipped placements, or any holes. Have they replaced any more of the existing fixed anchors like we did on the first two pitches, or just gone for it with the existing bolts and Z-mac rivets from the first ascent party? Also, any more whippers [falls], and if so how many and how long? Thanks again for your reports!
So Annie, from the sounds of what you have written above, the climbing remains serious and has involved many more falls. It also sounds as though they have not replaced any anchors - true? To go for it on so hard a route requiring so many falls on nearly thirty-year-old fixed gear that was never very strong to begin with is a testament to the courage and dedication and sickness of Ammon. The quarter-inch bolts most likely have a shear strength of not much more than a thousand pounds - I have replaced many over the years and it is scary how easily some of them come out. The Zmacs have a nominal rating of four or five hundred pounds in concrete out of the box, probably stronger when new in granite, certainly weaker now after so long on a wet low-angle face.
Annie, can you please ask Kait and Ammon these specific questions:
1. Have they seen any bat holes or any other drilled holes? If so how many and where? If yes, do they look like the work of the first ascensionists, or a subsequent party?
2. Have they seen any chipped or enhanced hook placements? If so how many and where?
3. What kind of gear has Ammon been falling onto?
4. Has any of the fixed gear failed when falling on to it, or hauling from it?
5. Has he been using any fall arrester devices like Yates Screamers or Scream-Aids?
From what you quote above - "still hooking" - this suggests that Ammon has been able to repeat every move on natural hooks. True?
We have questioned the repeatability of this route, on account of the first ascensionists indicated they made micro-enhancements to approximately 10% of the hook placements, meaning about fifteen micro-enhancements over the entire length of the hooking section of the route. How many they made and how they did them are precisely and excruciatingly described on another post here.
I asked Ammon, and he told me he could see no evidence of enhancements on the first two pitches, and I couldn't see any either. I was delighted that Ammon could repeat the first two pitches with what hook placements were there, cuz I sure couldn't - too hard for me. It appears as though he continues to continue hooking.
We have wondered if any of these fifteen or so micro-enhancements might have been directly in the water streak, and if they could have been worn smooth by a quarter-century of erosion. It will be interesting to see if this is the case as he attempts to continue hooking on what's left as he climbs through the water streak.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
"did their thing," Coz. Sorry, I mean Sage. They sure did. For you to be one of the lovers having spent so much time in the Valley is a laugher.
tooth, I was making a joke about the number of anchors due to the 1,070 lbs and seven bags or so. And I'm not keen on rumors either.
Healy, are you really that stupid? Total denial.
The Goofball: to compare those two to the guys you posted is easily one of your classics. Warren does sort of fit in though. He actually dated BwanaMama. Those other two gents certainly don't want to be in the same category.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
You are clearly the one steeped in decades of screaming denial and bilious fabrications. Those guys up there have just proven you to be full of sh#t at every turn.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Who are the eyewitness/earwitnesses?
Let us know!