50 murdered by Islamic terrorist.

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monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 19, 2016 - 11:21am PT
Trump and Klimmer both agree on the solution.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/19/politics/donald-trump-chris-cox-nra-orlando-shooting/index.html


[Click to View YouTube Video]
jstan

climber
Jun 19, 2016 - 11:23am PT
Suicide by mass murder with a gun. These American killings are our version of suicide bombing. Let me ask a question. What is it that suicide by mass murder with a gun gives one that is not afforded when a bomb is used? Find an answer to this question and we will better see what needs doing.

Is the gun now the center of a new belief system?

Are we destined to hold dances around gun-like statues?

Why are belief systems so sought after in our country?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 19, 2016 - 11:28am PT
cause we're monkey's celebrating fire and firepower.

you know, your always saying it; it comes from our survival "instinct".

Or what ever it is that causes the Venus Flytrap catch and digest fly's.

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 19, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
^^^Thanks for that. Very enlightening!
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jun 19, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
I'm not sure if I'm honoring my friend's memory by posting this here (where some tempers appear to flare so easily amongst the arguers) but I believe these discussions need to take place (in a civilized manner), and I believe the account that I'm posting here still needs to be heard.

Gun Violence

A few years back some really good friends of mine were attending our monthly RC airplane club general meeting at a room we rented monthly for the occasion from a utility company. Several of us were board members for the 200 member club where we host our Reno style RC Warbird pylon race series every year along with other RC flying events. I had stepped down the previous month after serving for four years as the club secretary.

One of the board members was an older security guard in his seventies who had a concealed weapon permit. He sometimes worked security details for various business but was semi retired. He was a jealous man with a younger wife in her fifties. He sometimes bragged about being in altercations in bars to protect her honor. I had disagreed with him on a few occasions regarding some club matters at our board meetings and he became weirdly confrontational with me. I believed he was an irrational unstable hothead and I began keeping my distance from him. Besides, fighting with someone about a hobby or other petty matters, especially at our age seemed pretty unwise and immature, and I didn't trust him after that.

Luckily, I was not in attendance at our meeting that night when the tragedy struck. I received a phone call from one of my friends who was there moments after the terrible event transpired. I had a hard time processing it and for a few moments and I was in total disbelief.

The back story is that one of the other board members named Jerry was single and divorced. He was close friends with the older security guard and his younger wife. The security guard had a fight with his wife and she left him and shacked up with the single friend, Jerry. A few months then went by and during that time the security guard had been making threats overheard by others about doing violence to his wife and to Jerry which tragically went un-acted upon.

On the night of the tragedy he showed up in the parking area in front of the utility company several minutes before our club meeting was to begin. He got out of his truck, walked up and confronted his estranged wife and Jerry, and then shot Jerry twice at point blank, murdering him in cold blood right in front of my three other friends.

Then he ran after his wife and chased her into the building while yelling about his intent to kill her. She ran into a bathroom to hide, as an armed utility company guard who was on duty cowered behind his booth and called called 911. Our club president, a big man, came out of the general meeting room where there were other club members present who were unaware of what was transpiring. The club president, who was a soft spoken unarmed Vietnam veteran, bravely stood up to the killer and said, "your not going to kill anyone, get the hell out of here!"

The killer backed down and retreated into the parking lot area, where he knelt down on the grass and shot himself in the head. Everyone there was detained for questioning for several hours after the police arrived, and the investigation went on for days. The article in the Sacramento Bee and reports on the TV news called it a lover's triangle that spiraled into a tragedy, which was partly true.

I don't know what I would have done if I was there. The killer didn't like me and I would have been in the parking lot with my three other friends if I were there. Had I been there and stood up to him, I probably wouldn't be writing this. I often think about what would have happened if I were there. Another fear is that if I were there, would I have displayed cowardice? Years later my heart still goes out to my friends who witnessed the tragedy, and although I'll never know what I would have done had I been there, the truth is, I'm really glad I wasn't there.

I don't carry weapons and never will. I own a few guns but only for target practice. They are stored and locked away so well I only get them out to use them about every five years. I recently took my 16 year old grandson out for his birthday to the gun range and we practiced for hours. I spent two hours with him before and after teaching him gun safety and about cleaning the weapons. He's been in ROTC for three years and wants to continue it in college after high school so he can be an officer and have a military career. He's doing great in school and I would never try to talk him out if his chosen path in life even though my wife and I are pacifists and never want to see him go to war.

Back to my story. That day our club president, by his actions, saved we don't know how many lives by standing up to the killer. It was truly an act of reckless bravery and extreme selflessness. He was honored later that year for bravery by the Sacramento police department and the city council. I have never written about this before but thought it was germane to the discussion here. I have omitted the full names of the killer and his victim out of respect for their families, although it was in the media and is public record.

Earlier, when I asked how many here on this thread have been personally affected by terrorism or gun violence I wasn't thinking about my own experience, although it was second hand, or how it has affected a large group of people I know. The repercussions of such a senseless single violent act are many fold, and radiate into the community and the future, affecting lives for generations to come. Although the act was caused by a human being, IMO the gun can become the secondary catalyst and the multiplier of a tragedy. Any intelligent person who argues that guns don't kill people, people do, has not taken this consideration into the equation.

Happy Father's Day, everyone!

Cheers,
-bushman
06/19/2016
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 19, 2016 - 01:12pm PT
I have never seen more ignorant, stupid, moronic, idiotic, foolish, posts than what I am reading on this page from all of you right-wing nutcases. I don't know whether to be pissed or just feel boatloads of sympathy for your blind, immoral ignorance. With a handful of exceptions, this site is permeated with right-wing nutcases who preach tolerance for everybody except those they disagree with. May The Flying Spaghetti Monster forgive me for wasting time here. It is just so entertaining to read the foolishness that emanates from you schmucks.

So there. How's that!

Jody, you're a great photographer. Roping up with you would be a great experience, for sure. When you write about your dad it's very inspiring.

But Jesus Herman Christ...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 19, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
Jody...That's what makes supertopo so fascinating...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 19, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
Bushman,

That's a bummer story.

I had a friend from high school that was stabbed to death on a greyhound bus. No relation to the stabber, he just got unlucky and sat behind the wrong person. The person he was with got stabbed also but I think he lived if memory serves.

Should I blame guns for that also?



10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 19, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
I have never seen more ignorant, stupid, moronic, idiotic, foolish, posts than what I am reading on this page from all of you left-wing nutcases. I don't know whether to be pissed or just feel boatloads of sympathy for your blind, immoral ignorance. With a handful of exceptions, this site is permeated with left-wing nutcases who preach tolerance for everybody except those they disagree with. May God forgive me for wasting time here. It is just so entertaining to read the foolishness that emanates from you schmucks.

Nothing like a good ad hominem attack on your fellow climbers.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 19, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
Blowback?

nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 19, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
^^^^

all who believe that a "well-regulated militia" means that:

regulations := gun control := naziism

please continue to post inane image macros promulgating straw men arguments instead of engaging in actual debate regarding the grey area of what a "well-regulated militia" should mean in the 21st century that we currently are existing in...

/s
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 19, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
uh - oh





Right wing people shouldn't make hitler references. It never turns out well.

Not to mention it triggers Godwin's rule.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2016 - 06:43am PT
U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch revealed Sunday that the government will release the transcripts of the 911 calls made by the Orlando terrorist during the attack last Sunday — scrubbed of any references to Islam or the Islamic State (ISIS).
She told Chuck Todd on NBC News’ Meet the Press that the “FBI is releasing a partial [printed] transcript of the killer’s calls with law enforcement, from inside the club,” but added: “What we’re not going to do is further proclaim this man’s pledges of allegiance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda.”

Todd responded, incredulously: “We’re not going to hear him talk about those things?”

Lynch added: “We will hear him talk about some of those things, but we are not going to hear him make his assertions of allegiance and that.”

It is widely known that the terrorist, Omar Mateen, pledged allegiance to the Islamic State — also known as the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS — during the attack.

CNN reported last Sunday, citing a U.S. official: “Mateen called [911] dispatchers about 20 minutes into the attack, pledging allegiance to ISIS and mentioning the Boston Marathon bombers.”

Last week, the Washington Post reported that Mateen had called a local news station and said: “I did it for ISIS” and “I did it for the Islamic State.”

President Barack Obama himself has acknowledged that Mateen referred to ISIS (or “ISIL,” as the Obama administration insists on calling the group, swapping “Levant” for “Syria” for unknown reasons). However, he has insisted that Mateen likely was a “lone wolf,” and that any connection between the terror attack and radical Islam is either false or unhelpful to identify.

He defended his refusal to use the phrase “radical Islam,” saying that “there is no magic to the phrase “radical Islam.” He argued that connecting terrorists to Islam only furthered the interests of groups like the Islamic State, which wish to foment a war between the Islamic world and the West.

Lynch appears to be carrying out that instruction to an absurd extreme. While she claimed that “we’re trying to get as much information about this investigation out as possible,” she and the rest of the administration are deliberately suppressing any evidentiary link between Mateen and radical Islam, even though she has acknowledged that he did not mention other purported motives, such as prejudice against gays.

President Obama has also insisted that the culprit in Orlando was weak gun control laws — and, indirectly, the Republican Party, which has resisted further infringements on the Second Amendment.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:48am PT
Seems reasonable to me. Why inspire copycats?

Mateen would want his message to be delivered to sympathizers. Let's not do that.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:43am PT
Real, real close and funny we were doing the same thing...

LOL!!!...

And I beat you both to it months ago. SMH......

lol
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2016 - 07:55am PT
monolith

climber
state of being

Jun 20, 2016 - 06:48am PT
Seems reasonable to me. Why inspire copycats?

Mateen would want his message to be delivered to sympathizers. Let's not do that.

Yes. We don't want to do anything that might upset Muslims.

Be afraid.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:05am PT
"Trump is not and never has been a conservative. Will definitely vote third party this year, probably Libertarian."

Well, that makes about a total of 3 ST conservatives who don't like Trump, and will honestly say they won't be voting for him.

The others pretty much skirt around the question, never being able to address it directly. Weak spine, I guess.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:11am PT
HERE is what Obama's and the rest of the Liberal Brigades STRICT GUN CONTROL Program offers.

For ALL you ANTI GUN folks out there that are drinking the KOOL AID, Chicago has the strictest Liberal run GUN CONTROL laws in this nation that is the exact same that OBAMA and all them LIBs are crying for.

You notice how there was not a PEEP from Obama nor any of the Liberal news medias about the MASS SHOOTINGS this weekend in Chicago. Keep drinking the KOOL AID!!!

Pathetic!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-12-dead-at-least-41-hurt-in-weekend-shootings-20160620-story.html


edit:
The others pretty much skirt around the question, never being able to address it directly. Weak spine, I guess.

you such the VICTIM!!! awhhhh...
monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:12am PT
Sure Sketch, you seem to think it's ok to provide material for recruitment videos.

She told everyone(including Muslims) that their are allegiances to ISIS.

Nothing is being hidden but the actual words of a non-practicing muslim lunatic proclaiming allegiance.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:16am PT
yeah

I never understood why there are ANY gun laws

criminals do not respect laws, how are laws going to stop them?

same as traffic lights, laws don't make bad drivers stop when the light is red

think about it, if many gays were packing in that night club that radical muslim would have been killed fast

you guys just....don't...get.....it
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