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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2015 - 06:42pm PT
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There are 842 violent or cruel passages in the Bible compared to 333 in the Quran.
How well do you know your violent religions?
The following 30 violent exhortations are drawn from Jewish, Christian and Muslim scriptures. The generic word "God" is used for all deity names, and names of places or people have been replaced with generic terms. How well do you know your Torah, Bible or Quran and Hadith? Can you tell which is which? Give it a try and then check the key at the bottom.
1. Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged.
2. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.
3. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am God.
4. Fight them until there is no more [disbelief or worshipping of other gods] and worship is for God alone.
5. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
6. Whoso fighteth in the way of God, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
7. Make ready to slaughter [the infidel’s] sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.
8. [God’s messenger]... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The [holy man] replied, "They [women and children] are from them [unbelievers]."
9. Then I heard God say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.”
10. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
11. Keep [my holiday], for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die.
12. The punishment of those who wage war against God and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.
13. If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.
14. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land...
15. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
16. I shall terrorize the [heathens]. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them, because they oppose God and his apostle.
17. A [holy man’s] daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.
18. So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.
19. Everyone who would not seek God was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
20. And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.
21. But if [a girl wasn't a virgin on her wedding night] and evidence of the girl's virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father’s house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against God’s people by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.
22. The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O [believer]! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
23. If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.
24. God’s Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but God."
25. Cursed be he who does God’s work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.
26. God said, "A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. [Prophet], you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But God desires killing them to manifest the religion."
27. Anyone who blasphemes God’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of [believers].
28. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) [your religion]; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them [a tax]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek God's help and fight them.
29. Anyone else who goes too near the [Holy Place] will be executed.
30. Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us.
Is the Quran more violent than the Bible? The question is hard to answer. A tally at the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible counts 842 violent or cruel passages in the Bible as compared to 333 in the Quran. That said, the Bible is a much thicker tome, and even though the New Testament endorses and adds to the violence in the Old, when percentages are compared, the Quran comes out ahead. In addition, the kinds of cruelty and violence vary as do the perpetrator and victim and the extent to which any verse can be interpreted as divine sanction for the behavior in question. Either way, this short test offers an illustrative sample from each sacred text.
Bible and Quran believers who recognize verses in this list will no doubt protest that they have been taken out of context, as indeed they have. I think the appropriate response to such a complaint is a question: What context, exactly, would make these verses uplifting, inspiring or worthy of praise? In what context are passages like these some of the most important and holy guidance that the creator of the universe might think to impart to humankind? In what context is a book that contains these passages and many, many more like them the apogee of divine goodness and timeless wisdom?
Members of each Abrahamic tradition are quick to point out the rational and moral flaws in the others. I wonder sometimes, what this world might be like if they were as quick to examine the flaws in their own.
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Key: Odd numbered quotes are from the Bible, even numbers from the Quran or Hadith. 1. Deuteronomy17:12 NLT; 2. Bukhari 11:626; 3. Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT; 4. Quran 2:193; 5. Matthew 10:34-35; 6. Quran 4:74; 7.Isaiah 14:21 NAB; 8. Bukhari 52:256; 9. Ezekiel 9:5 NLT; 10. Quran 8:12; 11. Exodus 31:12-15 NLT; 12. Quran5:33; 13. Leviticus 20:10 NLT; 14. Quran 8:67; 15. Numbers 31: 17-18 KJV; 16. Quran 8:12; 17. Leviticus 21:9 NAB; 18. Quran 9:5; 19. 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB; 20. Quran 17:16; 21. Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB; 22.Bukhari 52:177; 23. Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB; 24. Bukhari 8:387; 25. Jeremiah 48:10 NAB; 26. Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484; 27. Leviticus 24:16 NLT; 28. Muslim 19:4294; 29. Numbers 1: 51 NLT; 30. Tabari 9:69
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Kinda makes you wonder what religion Philippine 'head hunters' practice.
You shoulda been there when they got a hold of Ak-47's.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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The whole thing was a criminal setup where they murdered two people and framed them.
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2015 - 07:21pm PT
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JULY 23, 2015
Using a .40-caliber semiautomatic pistol bought from a pawnshop, John R. Houser killed two people and wounded nine others at a movie theater in Lafayette, La.
2006
Mr. Houser was denied a state-issued concealed weapons permit because he was accused of domestic violence and soliciting arson.
2008
A judge ordered him sent to a psychiatric hospital.
2014
Mr. Houser bought the weapon in Alabama. Officials said it had been purchased legally, though he had been denied a concealed weapons permit earlier, and despite concerns among family members that he was violent and mentally ill.
JULY 23, 2015
He killed two people in Lafayette.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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^Dude would have never lasted in the Philippines.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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End the Gun Epidemic in America
It is a moral outrage and national disgrace that civilians can legally purchase weapons designed to kill people with brutal speed and efficiency.
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
DEC. 4, 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/opinion/end-the-gun-epidemic-in-america.html
All decent people feel sorrow and righteous fury about the latest slaughter of innocents, in California. Law enforcement and intelligence agencies are searching for motivations, including the vital question of how the murderers might have been connected to international terrorism. That is right and proper.
But motives do not matter to the dead in California, nor did they in Colorado, Oregon, South Carolina, Virginia, Connecticut and far too many other places. The attention and anger of Americans should also be directed at the elected leaders whose job is to keep us safe but who place a higher premium on the money and political power of an industry dedicated to profiting from the unfettered spread of ever more powerful firearms.
It is a moral outrage and a national disgrace that civilians can legally purchase weapons designed specifically to kill people with brutal speed and efficiency. These are weapons of war, barely modified and deliberately marketed as tools of macho vigilantism and even insurrection. America’s elected leaders offer prayers for gun victims and then, callously and without fear of consequence, reject the most basic restrictions on weapons of mass killing, as they did on Thursday. They distract us with arguments about the word terrorism. Let’s be clear: These spree killings are all, in their own ways, acts of terrorism.
Opponents of gun control are saying, as they do after every killing, that no law can unfailingly forestall a specific criminal. That is true. They are talking, many with sincerity, about the constitutional challenges to effective gun regulation. Those challenges exist. They point out that determined killers obtained weapons illegally in places like France, England and Norway that have strict gun laws. Yes, they did.
But at least those countries are trying. The United States is not. Worse, politicians abet would-be killers by creating gun markets for them, and voters allow those politicians to keep their jobs. It is past time to stop talking about halting the spread of firearms, and instead to reduce their number drastically — eliminating some large categories of weapons and ammunition.
It is not necessary to debate the peculiar wording of the Second Amendment. No right is unlimited and immune from reasonable regulation.
Certain kinds of weapons, like the slightly modified combat rifles used in California, and certain kinds of ammunition, must be outlawed for civilian ownership. It is possible to define those guns in a clear and effective way and, yes, it would require Americans who own those kinds of weapons to give them up for the good of their fellow citizens.
What better time than during a presidential election to show, at long last, that our nation has retained its sense of decency?
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
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JUNE 17, 2015
Dylann Roof, 21, killed nine people with a .45-caliber Glock pistol at a historic black church in Charleston, S.C.
FEBRUARY 2015
Mr. Roof was charged with a misdemeanor for possessing Suboxone, a prescription drug frequently sold in illegal street transactions.
APRIL 2015
He purchased a gun from a store in West Columbia, S.C. Mr. Roof should have been barred from buying a gun because he had admitted to possessing drugs, but the F.B.I. examiner conducting the required background check failed to obtain the police report from the February incident.
JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Roof joined a Bible study group at Emanuel A.M.E. Church and opened fire with the gun he bought in April.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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It is a moral outrage and national disgrace that civilians can legally purchase weapons designed to kill people with brutal speed and efficiency.
Rrrriiighhhttt!
ONLY our utterly trustworthy government and cops should have that sort of power (over us).
And when it comes to killing somebody that needs killing, the humane way IS with "brutal speed and efficiency." Would you rather that they die the death of a thousand cuts? Would that somehow be more "moral"?
Or, are you really saying that civilians HAVE no right of self-defense, or that they are "morally" entitled ONLY to use spitwads against knife and gun-wielding criminals and terrorists?
This "moral outrage" BS is just that. It's totally unsustainable in the face of reasoned argument and just looks silly. It's an easy, armchair perspective that will not withstand the first serious encounter with real-world violence.
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2015 - 05:11am PT
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Merry Christmas from the AmeriKKKunts.
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raymond phule
climber
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I would say that the huge difference between USA and the rest of the western world is that many ordinary non criminal Americans have guns for protection while almost none of ordinary non criminal non US western people have guns for protection.
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dirtbag
climber
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ONLY our utterly trustworthy government and cops should have that sort of power (over us).
Yes.
Basing public policies on delusions about government takeovers has completely failed the American people.
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2015 - 06:14am PT
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OCT. 24, 2014
Jaylen Ray Fryberg, 15, used his father’s Beretta pistol to shoot and kill four students in his high school’s cafeteria in Marysville, Wash.
2002
Raymond Lee Fryberg Jr., Jaylen’s father, was the subject of a permanent domestic violence protection order, which should have been entered into the federal criminal background database.
2013
Mr. Fryberg applied to buy the Beretta from a gun shop on the Indian reservation where he lived with Jaylen. A background check failed to come up with the protection order because it was never entered into the system.
OCT. 24, 2014
Jaylen Fryberg texted five of his fellow students to come to the cafeteria, where he opened fire.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2015 - 07:24am PT
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2015 - 07:27am PT
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APRIL 2, 2014
Specialist Ivan Antonio Lopez opened fire at Fort Hood with a Smith & Wesson semiautomatic pistol, killing three people and wounding 16 others.
2011
Specialist Lopez came back from a four-month deployment to Iraq and told his superiors that he had suffered a traumatic head injury there. Military officials said he had never seen combat and was being evaluated for possible post-traumatic stress disorder.
MARCH 2014
Specialist Lopez had seen a military psychiatrist as recently as the month before the shooting. He was being treated for depression and anxiety, and had been prescribed Ambien to help him sleep.
MARCH 1, 2014
Mr. Lopez bought his gun at the same shop where Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army major, had bought at least one of the weapons used in a 2009 mass shooting on the base that killed 13 people.
APRIL 2, 2014
Around 4 p.m., Mr. Lopez started firing on soldiers.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Having just spent the night at a family Christmas party in the Bay, it is interesting to note that even the vehemently anti-gun members have begun to consider purchasing weapons for protection due to recent terrorist acts here and abroad. They asked specifically for recommendations regarding where to buy firearms, and ammunition for the dusty ones in the closet, inherited, and for which they currently possess none.
My response involved more than "Walmart". In all cases when the question of purchasing weapons for self-defense, I attempt to bring serious thought to the question, and recommendations for they type of training the anti-crowd would require of all owners.
1. How likely is it that you're going to need it? (Well, they are historically anti-gun, meaning that to consider purchase indicates they think the possibility is high.)
2. What is the typical range at which you believe confrontations justifying the use of such weaponry is likely to take place? (Stand back three paces and demonstrate. Ask: could you draw a weapon in that time frame?)
3. What is the risk to you and your family of having a firearm in the house, and how do you intend to store it so that a) it's accessible when needed and b) it's NOT accessible to those who should not touch it? (Point out options such as quick-access safes that require fingerprint or key combinations, as well as the fact that if kids can get cookies off the top of the fridge, they can get daddy's .40 cal off the bookshelf.)
4. How are you going to perform under duress, in fight-or-flight mode? (Point out that simply having a firearm is not enough. Recommend training from somewhere like Thunder Ranch, where scenarios are role-played that are taken directly from true-to-life events, so that you train to reality. Point out that under pressure, people react the way they train, meaning if you shoot casually at the range without seeking cover and retreat, without tactical reloads, then you're likely to stand there like an idiot meat target and fumble.)
5. Are you willing to take another human life in defense of your family? Can you make the snap decision required to prevent hesitation that could cause you to lose the weapon if you pause? (Answer should be yes if you're going to carry. Answering yes should mean only that you recognize that some people, as evidenced by most of Philo's posts, are more than willing to take your life and the lives of your loved ones without cause, and you also recognize there are possible no-exit scenarios from which you and your family may not have the option of duck-and-cover, such as in a classroom or restaurant, and that you are willing to kill an attacker to stop them if necessary.)
Especially in the case of someone who has been previously anti-gun, they should be willingly able to answer those questions before seriously considering a gun for defensive purposes. Otherwise, might as well join a militia... cause they can't seem to define their most sacred justification for owning a firearm either. Any way, looks like I'm going to have a few new range partners soon. Christmas day target practice, here we come!
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2015 - 07:40am PT
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SEPT. 16, 2013
Aaron Alexis, 34, used a Remington shotgun to kill 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard.
2011
Mr. Alexis was given an honorable discharge after showing what Navy officials called a “pattern of misbehavior” during four years as a reservist.
A MONTH BEFORE THE SHOOTING
He twice sought treatment from the Department of Veterans Affairs for psychiatric issues. He told police in Rhode Island that people were pursuing him and sending vibrations through the walls of his hotel.
SEPT. 2013
He was stopped from buying an assault rifle at a Virginia gun store, but was allowed to buy a shotgun. He passed local and state background checks.
SEPT. 16, 2013
He killed 12 people at the Navy Yard.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Rafia Farook, the mother of San Bernardino terrorist Syed Rizwan Farook, is an active member of the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), a Muslim organization that promotes the establishment of a caliphate and has ties to a radical Pakistani political group called Jamaat-e-Islami.
Farook’s affiliation with ICNA was revealed on Friday when MSNBC and other new outlets scoured the Farooks’ apartment in Redlands, Cal. An MSNBC reporter found a certificate of appreciation presented to Safia Farook last summer by ICNA’s sisters’ wing.
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