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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
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By the time Matt's friends got his stuff, everything was thrown in the car so until w clarify with the detective, no way of knowing whether pair in car came from car or campsite.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 23, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
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I've been following this thread every day when I'm home. I have not posted, except for an early "best wishes" because I am not local up there and have had nothing to contribute.
Now as I look at all these images of the glasses however, I think it is safe to conclude that the found glasses are a good match to Matt's. The differences, one image to the next, are likely to be artifacts of digital imaging, sensors, cameras, resolution, angle of view, lighting etc. The similarities are remarkable, the apparent differences minute.
A comparison of the lens prescription must be made ASAP. And every effort must be made to find out who first found the glasses and when and where. The fact that someone was cool enough to hang them on the trail sign to be found by their owner tends to indicate a certain type, perhaps a local. Can local businesses use their email lists to put the word out regarding these glasses? Such an effort could contact a huge number of people with minimum effort.
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MisterE
climber
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Aug 23, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
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I agree with the other posters that a specific prescription for similar looking glasses could speak volumes.
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
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I'd caution everyone to PLEASE stick to evidential facts. Dreams, and psychics are interesting, but you can't go running after "visions". People are out searching treacherous terrain, at no small risk to themselves, based upon the collective experience of the community...because Matt didn't leave us much to go on. I know that people are desperately grasping at straws; and I do understand that, but we have to focus on what we know, and failing that, what is or was most likely. We have an incredibly difficult task here, lets not go off on tangents that lack supporting evidence. That's just too many degrees of freedom.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Aug 23, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
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just a note from someone who has worn glasses all my life
i have several pairs of glasses, they tend to be similar style, based on personal taste, but not all the same
also, having acquired them over time, they don't all have exactly the same prescription
good luck finding 'my optometrist', there have been quite a few over the years...
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Aug 23, 2013 - 11:48pm PT
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Aug 23, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
I'd caution everyone to PLEASE stick to evidential facts. Dreams, and psychics are interesting, but you can't go running after "visions". People are out searching treacherous terrain, at no small risk to themselves, based upon the collective experience of the community...because Matt didn't leave us much to go on. I know that people are desperately grasping at straws; and I do understand that, but we have to focus on what we know, and failing that, what is or was most likely. We have an incredibly difficult task here, lets not go off on tangents that lack supporting evidence. That's just too many degrees of freedom.
Please don't dismiss what people, loved ones, friends of Matt's have witnessed in their dreams. This is very real for them. They've had the guts to share it all with us too. Not an easy thing to do, especially here on ST. Different people, close friends of his, some unrelated yet having similar dreams. Powerful stuff. And then the family went to a psychic, and detailed info was given. Again difficult to share, yet they did. And this then has led others to follow they're own understandings of these perceptions, these dreams, psychic detail, and then go after it. Thank you Alex.
I have a good feeling this mystery is going to get solved as a result of these private disclosures. People are really pulling together on this :-)
Powerful, powerful stuff.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Aug 24, 2013 - 12:02am PT
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diving this lake presents its own special challenges, with steep and loose approach slopes at the angle of repose
the diver/climbers can rappel down and use jumars as hand holds for re-ascent (three of our divers have done El Cap ascents)
this is complicated by the need to dive in very cold water, while going down and up the approach slope in relatively warm conditions...
we always try to minimize the divers exertion prior to the actual dive to prevent overheating and premature exhaustion
we will use dry suits with rock boots for the cold water and rugged approach
a dive tender on a parallel rope in normal clothes can help stage and retrieve air tanks and weights closer to the waters edge
the lake doesn't look very deep, perhaps no more than 50 feet...this is helpful, because the Navy dive tables don't give you much time at depth, when the surface is at this high an altitude
looks like glacier milk colored water i.e. poor visibility (we are used to working with no vis)
a standard SAR technical team should be available with a three-to-one rig and slippery litter for dragging heavy loads up over loose talus
we also need help moving heavy gear from our equipment van to the dive site, i.e. large air bottles, heavy air-control/comm box, dive weights, etc.
it is preferable to use surface supplied air with an umbilical to the diver, supplying air, comm, and a belay; as contrasted with heavy SCUBA tanks with limited breathing time
this allows the diver to carry a relatively light-weight bailout bottle (SCUBA tanks are more challenging to maneuver on this sort of cliff approach)
our umbilicals are 180 feet long, so this has to be taken into account in choosing a staging area
we normally dive with a standby backup diver who has rigged up and tested his rig in the water before the primary diver ever gets wet
we obviously need to do our best protecting people down-slope from rock fall
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 24, 2013 - 12:04am PT
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Crankster, you’re right that a small local outing would not explain the missing gear. The missing gear points to a coherent story, which appears to be the main hypothesis to date: That Matt went on a big hike to somewhere with snow and ice, such as Ritter/Banner/the Minarets and had an accident.
If he had a huge day hike planned, while he could still have had trouble before reaching the mountain in question (for instance, if he had hitchhiked), presumably he would not have wasted time visiting scenic local places or doing ad hoc rock climbing at them. And if he just wanted to visit scenic local places, he probably would not have brought that gear.
On the other hand, if there is some medium-sized nearby objective with snow he could have gone to, he might have both brought the gear and also visited scenic local places on the way. And it’s certainly possible that he did do an easier local hike and that there's some other explanation for the missing gear. (In my opinion, if some people’s hunches and dreams point to possibilities closer to town, and others are able and willing to check those places out, those may actually be safer and easier places to search, if done carefully.)
One thing I’m wondering about, which people close to Matt might know: would he have mentioned a really big hike to family and friends, or would he have not talked about it to avoid alarming them? Also, is he likely to have planned a big hike in advance, or might he have planned such a hike the day before (when he heard that his car would be another two days), or even on the morning of the hike?
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Aug 24, 2013 - 12:05am PT
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I lost 5 friends at once a year ago. Two of them without a trace. I'm not dismissing their experiences, I'm saying that we can't react to anything but tangible evidence. There are too many degrees of freedom to spin off after dreams and visions, no matter how real they may seem.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 24, 2013 - 12:07am PT
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Tom, that sounds very daunting. Am I correct in assuming that y'all would wait before the glasses and any related evidence (such as the nature of the possible rockfall seen by Alex) are checked out before doing anything?
SalNichols, I'm sorry for your loss. I think that it is precisely because there are so many degrees of freedom that it may make sense to pay a little more attention to possible psychic phenomena than usual.
But I can understand how you might think otherwise, and agree that it's important to continue to seek more tangible evidence -- to work on that timeline, to try to wrest more info from any computers Matt may have used or internet searches he may have done and from people who might have seen him such as others at the campground, to consider the possibility of foul play, and most dauntingly, to continue to search the mountains as Cragman, mattyj, and others been doing.
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Crazy Bat
Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
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Aug 24, 2013 - 12:30am PT
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Almost all cave divers can climb rope and are used to limited visibility. Several Mexican caves are at altitude so those guys have experience with depth at altitude. Google Sistema Huatla,
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Aug 24, 2013 - 12:46am PT
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If it were me, I'd take the new clues and evidence given in this case:
*Dreams by separate people and friends yet common themes ... Blue diamonds, trees, hiking staff with clear crystal on top etc. etc. These experiences were finally shared publicly.
*Detailed description by a psychic the family went to. These details were finally shared publicly. Falling, ravine, snake bite, couldn't get help etc.
*Phone receives a text at an unusual hour in the early morning when his cell phone was normally off. Indicates trouble.
*Alex puts these things together with strong conviction and realizes its leading him to a close-by area that Alex is familiar with.
*He finds glasses found and left at the trail-head that seem incredibly similar, almost identical to the ones Matt wore. And this area is not far from the place his car was getting fixed. Within easy hiking distance.
*Alex's detailed images with clues within them are immediately recognized by those who had the dreams.
*Obviously, who ever first found and hung the glasses needs to be found. Where did they find the glasses? How did they find them? When did they find them? If that can all be determined, excellent starting point.
*From there I would SAR the entire region of the craters, with qualified volunteers and professionals obviously starting where it makes the most sense where he probably would go hiking visiting the area. Yes, that would include diving the craters if need be.
I think its gonna be figured out. There is hope of that happening. Too many different powerful evidences (that aren't commonly accepted) are adding up.
I've been to those craters and looked down into them with my dad, but that was way back in the 70s.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Aug 24, 2013 - 12:47am PT
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the Rite Aid thing bugs me. In my store I could have found his transaction if I knew the date and either the dollar amount or credit card # in less time than it took me to write this.
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x1n54n3x
Boulder climber
mammoth lakes
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Aug 24, 2013 - 12:51am PT
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From what I have heard, one SAR member went out after I dropped off the glasses, early evening today. Still waiting on the results of that. ML Police Chief Dan Watson commented on the facebook post that SAR was notified. Because of the nature of the area( easily accessible), I would assume that SAR will be out there tomorrow morning. Like I said, it is not hard to get to, the descent requires being careful, but is also easy. I will update this thread tomorrow morning when I hear more.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Aug 24, 2013 - 01:05am PT
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yes, this is daunting and requires significant support resources, including a SAR team (and/or helicopter?) for heavy lifting/extraction at the lake surface
there is significant planning required...right now we are doing a table-top planning exercise on it, assessing required team and resources
we will go ahead if/when we feel assured of a reasonable likelihood and have assembled the necessary team
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Aug 24, 2013 - 01:09am PT
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Start with what you know.
You know that Matt stayed over the 16 th and paid for the 17 th. you know that he was without wheels and dependent upon public transport or hitching.
You know, if you've read his blog, that he's picked up hitchikers...so hitching is an option to him.
Get the campground register and talk to everyone on it. Focus on the days disappearance -5 to + 5. Do background checks.
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Aug 24, 2013 - 02:07am PT
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yeah, i'd go ahead and dismiss the dreams.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Aug 24, 2013 - 02:19am PT
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Dreams (psychics) or cadaver dogs/ blood-hounds, lets get on with it (due respect to the family and friends).
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Jilli
Trad climber
Livermore, California/ Dunedin NZ
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Aug 24, 2013 - 08:36am PT
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Hey guys, I have been following this thread for the past many weeks. I don't know Matt but I do have a family friend who's husband went missing in pretty much the same area, same month, massive SAR effort, 10years ago. I can only imagine how hard it must be for the family/friends at this time. I too, would be trying anything to find him even if it means having faith in dreams/psychics/crystals... So that is why I find it disrespectful for some commenters to advise to dismiss the dreams... those dreams are exactly how the glasses have been found in the first place! They are very real and anyone who has had similar experience would attest to the same.
ALso, Losing a pair of prescription eye glasses while hiking in the wilderness cannot happen all that often... it would be a huge coincidence if these were not Matt's. One does not just leave something like that behind, especially if they are as blind as a bat without them...
That being said, may the search continue for Mr.Greene!
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Jilli
Trad climber
Livermore, California/ Dunedin NZ
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Aug 24, 2013 - 08:50am PT
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Btw, is there any info out there as to what extent he uses eye glasses? In some of the climbing pics on his flickr site he is without- so either doesn't need them all the time or wears contacts.
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