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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Why stop @ 1000? There is still lots of new thoughts and ideas surfacing amidst the redundancy here, as well as questions that have been asked and at least twice as many that have not been answered. I think I'm just getting warmed up. Went downtown today & talked to 50 ppl who think the gondola is a bad idea, hmmmm wierd, must have been my delivery when explaining it to them, an agreeable bunch us squaminards are:-)
Interesting fact- 4 restaurants shut down in whistler this week, tourism is obviously thriving when established businesses are shutting down at the end of the winter. I wasnt planning on mentioning it but I have been working up in fat city for the past 15 years & my pessimism towards the gondola stems from the changes I have seen there- Whistler is obviously a barometer, so to speak for the traffic that comes through Squamish. Believe me when i tell you that it is not what it once was. The people are still showing up there but the loose pockets that existed in the 90's arent exactly there anymore & the summer crowd is the cheapest of them all. People will still go there & ski- always. But will they have 5 fine dining dinners a week?? Nope. Will they but new boots just because the dollar is & 1.5? Nope. Because its not.Will they make 2 sightseeing gondola stops, even 3. Maybe, but i would doubt it. In this days economy people are constantly looking for ways to do the things that they want to do & visit places that they have dreamed of- like Whistler. They just do it differently, in a much more frugal manner. $150 bottle of wine?? How about a 1/2 L of the house red please? I know this from dealing directly with tourists every day & have seen the paradigm shift with my own eyes. More and more all of us regardless if we're 1% or 99% are doing what we can to keep our cash in our pockets.
As i mentioned once already the speculation that this gondola will have 300k users per year is a gross exaggeration, WB does this many sightseers per year- barely. How is this part time operation in Squam supposed to match those numbers?? Seriously???? You want to keep sh1t honest Hamish? maybe try looking into some of these claims instead of insinuating that Anders is not being honest every few pages. I think most will agree that he's been very open with his position & intentions from the opening post, while the developers are consistently fabricating information.
Hey Bruce, to answer your question i have actually sent some emails regarding the gondola plan & my opinion on it. I also made a few calls & tried to do some research regarding comparisons to the WB operations & obviously by forwarding the petition as well- which is not anti gondola but anti process BTW & we would all be smart to sign it whether we are for or against the proposal. It is more to make sure that our government plays by the rules rather than having the power to bend us over whenever a good cash grab presents itself. However, much like Anders I don't really have much desire to contact the developers to tell them that I think their idea is retarded on so many levels. Even though I don't agree with their plan, like you said up thread they are still people too & I wouldn't appreciate or react kindly to people questioning or second guessing the viability of my business plan, especially when they already have the tip in. Basically if you don't have something nice to say to someone don't say it at all y'know (yea I'm a hypocrite tho for slamming them online I know).
Anyways, much respect to everyone here & appreciation for all of your opinions, for or against. Even those who are not from the area that have chimed in it has been cool to hear a different perspective. I just really hope that within this debate we have all thought about things from as many different points of view as possible and considered the potential consequences & benefits in a realistic way, Bruce K has been a great example of someone who has considered possible outcomes & his tune has changed a few times throughout his many posts here. Although I may not fully agree with his position on the gondola I appreciate how he has been dynamic & listened to what others have said.
Thanks Bmacd!
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Ryan, thanks for your kind words. Actually they're not that kind. Next time please read the previous posts before calling me out. You'll notice on post 316 I was mentioning how the rider estimates seemed particularily high; so I was on that tangent 700 posts ago, in the old days, so to speak.
And as for dissecting Anders's posts here and there, they require it. Perhaps it's just me, but when he writes that he (access society) was O.K. with alternative proposals, including the present one, I can see where TLC drew their assumption. Maybe it's just me. Or maybe you just need to read his post on the previous page again. Post 991... "Our position was that there were several viable options, including one like the current proposal". Does that not shed a slightly different light on how things were left in 2004? Do you see how it was possible TLC misinterpreted Anders's wishes?
I think this is semi-important stuff because if TLC hadn't O.K.'d the gondola, we wouldn't be squabbling away our time here.
Also, on the fairness note, is it really that fair to be hassling the proponents because you're uneasy with their business plan? I mean, it's their money, not yours. It's not as if they're asking you for a loan.
You seem to have restaurants on the brain a bit. If someone wanted to open a Thai restaurant in Squamish and you didn't think they'd get enough customers in, would you put them under the microscope on a time-eraser-computer-site? The truth is we all doubt their rider numbers but who are we to say? We're not their bank.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Well I can't put any stickers on it because I don't want to slow it down.
Also too short on time to be a dogcatcher due to the number of quality trails around this place.
And for any folks out there who don't think there's economic value in regards to mountain biking, inquire how the gravel road to Diamond Head was being used over the weekend. I'll save you the hassle: Over 1000 people up there for the launch of Full Nelson, vehicles lining both sides of the logging road, bumper to bumper, for well over a kilometer. Mayhem.
I admit I instead rode trails with no one on them, but my information is bang on.
Yes, those bikers have money. And they don't sit around in restaurants ordering water while waiting for the rock to dry.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Sorry, I couldn't resist as an old timer I chatted with the other day laid that one on me. I was explaining the bit about the climbers and the park and he went into a little rant about how his neice used to work at the Klahanie and wasn't too appreciative when it would rain and the climbers would come in, hang out, and order water. 15% of not much is definitely not much. I guess that drove her nuts.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Ed you are a sly dog but self sustained fusion still eludes you. My man Anders in line for succession to 1000 in this reality set.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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and I just gave it to him!
now back to work on fusion...
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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BRAVO.... Sir. Well done
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Fish Boy
Trad climber
Vancouver
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CBC right now are having a chat about this and the state of provincial parks in BC.
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saa
climber
not much of a
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Anders
get the f*#k off super topo. It's a waste.
Go for the gondola man....
That s where your mc2 is need! (E= mc2). Waaaaarrrrhhh!!
I'm with you on the gondola, stop wasting your energy off it. Please.
Sabine, and Darwin (his political views are limited).
from Chamonix, but keeping squamish in very close sight.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Do they have a gondola in Chamonix?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sabine spent a month at Squamish last summer. She's entitled to her views, isn't she?
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Oh absolutely, I was just wondering if that was one of the towns with a gondola. Not trying to be negative, or positive.
One of the locals I interviewed on the suject lived in (I'm 99% sure) Chamonix and was raving about the benefits of the gondola there.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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She's entitled to her views, isn't she?
Yes. And they carry exactly the same weight as my views about political issues in her town would carry if I'd visited it for a month a year ago.
Not meant as sarcasm, but as a statement of something that should be thought about.
Same thing applies to me, by the way. I haven't lived in Vancouver, nor been a regular at Squamish for over a decade, so my views shouldn't carry the same weight as yours. Which in turn should maybe not carry as much weight as Hamish's (or any other resident of Squamish). Which is why I've never really expressed any view pro or con, only urged people to debate facts, rather than preach an entrenched position.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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"One of the locals I interviewed on the suject lived in (I'm 99% sure) Chamonix and was raving about the benefits of the gondola there."
That's because it links to Italy and provides access for tons of climbing and skiing in addition to the tourists...
... as opposed to the "Gondola to Nowhere"
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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It's provincial, not a regional or local park, and one of national if not international stature. Which is why all views bear equal weight. Including those of emigres to Seattle.
The government, and certainly the developers, will no doubt argue that those who don't express any view should be taken to be in favour, or at least not opposed.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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It's provincial, not a regional or local park, and one of national if not international stature. Which is why all views bear equal weight. Including those of emigres to Seattle.
Yes, a Provincial Park is involved, so yes, people in the province have every right to express an opinion. But to believe that your opinion should have the same weight as that of someone who lives in Squamish seems a little arrogant.
That said, I do understand that sometimes local desires have to be overruled for the greater good. Homes and businesses were displaced or seriously devalued by the construction of the Vancouver SkyTrain, for example. But to casually suggest that your view about the gondola is just as important as that of someone from Squamish is to forget that only part of this debate is about a Provincial Park. Much of the debate is about other things, and on those things your opinion isn't very important, mine is almost unimportant, and Sabine's is completely irrelevant.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Hamish, to be blunt the cards you are playing in this debate are very very weak. The upside is your writing skills have progressed from poor to superb in a short time.
Concentrate on the known facts and issues identified. The fantasy conjecture isn't becoming of someone as sharp as you are.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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I wasn't even aware I had any cards to play. I'm just calling it like it is and doing my best to give readers the typical Squamilian point of view, from a fairly large base, as I've spoken with many people from all walks of life on the subject.
I expressed my thoughts in regards to preferring the gondola travel up the other side of the river, where the views of the Chief are a lot better, and thereby boosting the Squamish economy a tad. I realize it's not my baby and therefore I have no say in where it's going. I also fully realize I'm about seven months late with that idea; not too mention it wasn't even my idea.
I find it endlessly interesting that TLC fascilitated the project and sometimes wonder whether the whole excercise really was to get the gondola away from the Chief, not the Park.
The more time that passes, the more I believe TLC, Anders, and whoever else was at that table eight years ago had their hearts set on protecting the Chief, not the Park.
The buttons say "Friends of the Squamish Chief" after all.
Perhaps if those buttons had said "Save the Park", TLC wouldn't have sold Anders down the river without even realizing it.
Also, I'm not as think as you sharp I am; what exactly is my "fantasy conjecture". You're losing me there.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I'm not quite sure what Bruce is on about either.
Some here could be more critical in their consideration of the proposal.
I reject the notion that I'm a second class citizen, and that my views carry less weight, simply because I don't live in Squamish.
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