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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:08pm PT
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99% of everything we've made that needs to be plugged into electricity to run does is really not needed for mankind to live comfortably and happy in life .....
You are wrong, Werner. 100% is really not needed.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:08pm PT
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99% not needed...the other 1% is Lockers butt plug...
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:13pm PT
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Would our government so blatantly tell OUR citizen nuke workers to "get back in there" knowing it was "recognized as a suicide mission?"
No doubt many of those workers going in have volunteered, fully understanding it's suicidal in a way that we, safely overseas, cannot begin to understand.
I'm wondering why no mention if robotics instead of humans is possible.If we have robots capable of performing some of the maneuvers needed in those buildings, I hope - sincerely - they have been offered, if not already in use.
It also occurs to me just now that perhaps in the future, the employment of robotics for such emergency work might be something to be looked into. Too costly? More costly than the lives of humans? Maybe we want our energy too cheap, if we aren't willing to lay down and do what we expect another to.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:14pm PT
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Bluering
I already did and you missed the point.
99% of everything we've made that needs to be plugged into electricity to run does is really not needed for mankind to live comfortably and happy in life .....
Errr, I agreed with you on that post. I even said I don't own a cell-phone, Iphone, Iwhatever, or whatever.
I agree with you on this! We don't need this crap 'plugged in' all the time. I'm gonna come to the valley and rip yer head off because we're agreeing and still arguing!!!!!
You are so wasted, Werner!@
What I said earlier is that all the Greenie Fags using laptops and Iphones are more responsible than me, yet I'm the conservative demon!!!!!!
GaaHHHHH!!!!!!
Idiots. and Hypcites!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:19pm PT
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Questions for the fizzycists;
The second explosion at #3 was huge and moved some big chunks of steel thru the air that could clearly be seen in the video. From some of the recent photos it looks like they really could have blown the lid off it. At least off the secondary containment.
Now with this design there's a cooling pool in the top floor and above, actually part of the secondary containment. (or the illustrations are inaccurate, something rrrAdam would know.)
Given the violence of the explosion, could it smush together, (not likely, but possible) the used fuel and get it to go critical again?
If it was scattered about in small bits by the explosion would it cool rapidly enough in air to not burn any remaining cladding? (more surface area for unit volume)
Edit,
I see this thread has devolved into idiocy, so I'd understand if knowledgeable people have moved on to something more productive.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:22pm PT
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The U.S. has just very publicly told the Japanese government to grow some balls and start facing the situation.
This should really be an international concern and all advanced nations using nukes should be volunteering along with the Japanese to try and avert this potential catastrophe.
If these things go into meltdown the whole world will feel the effects in various ways they do not really see yet .....
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:33pm PT
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There are transcripts of some very informative Q & A sessions the Union of Concerned Scientists are holding daily at :
http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear_power/nuclear_power_risk/safety/japan-nuclear-crisis-briefings.html
The 3 scientists replying to reporters include Ed Lyman, who spoke this afternoon before the Senate briefing that was mentioned front page on the NY Times. Someone posted the link unthread.
Tomorrow the UoCS will release a report "on the U.S. nuclear industry's safety record in 2010".
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:33pm PT
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Riley, I no more appreciate Environmental Disasters then you do dying patients. So long as we liev the way we will do I will have plenty of work. Unfortunately.
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cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:39pm PT
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Given the violence of the explosion, could it smush together, (not likely, but possible) the used fuel and get it to go critical again?
Seems doubtful. It'll just be a big hot pile of pure evil. Why there aren't robots to deal with this kind of mess is a question that I bet will eventually come up. Big lead-lined Roombas would come in really handy at this point.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:49pm PT
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Happie and Bluering, robots were used to clean up much of the radioactive contamination inside Three Mile Island reactor.
But it’s doubtful robots exist to manipulate and repair cooling systems in these Japanese reactors.
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cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
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Mar 16, 2011 - 11:57pm PT
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Yep, but no further work seems have been done. This article is two years old, the last lines say it all.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09088/959200-96.stm
The first, "Reconnaissance," completed within a year, was put into action in 1984, five years after the accident, creating "a major leap" in robotic technology, Dr. Whittaker said. It served cleanup duty for four years inside the containment building basement, then was succeeded by "Core Sampler." A third robot, "Work Horse" was built but never used.
The robots, which were submersible in water, were made of materials that wouldn't absorb radiation and lacked crevices where radioactive dust could accumulate.
Operated by humans at a distant control panel, the robots had to unroll enough electrical cord to provide power hundreds of feet down corridors deep inside the containment building. It was a major engineering feat that Dr. Whittaker initially designed on a napkin.
The robots carried cameras and equipment to measure radiation. They also bore high-pressure water sprayers, core drillers and scrapers.
Over the years, CMU's two robots cleaned up enough radiation in the basement to allow humans briefly to enter and evaluate conditions. A vacuum system was used to remove the damaged nuclear fuel from the reactor.
Still slightly contaminated, the containment building will remain sealed until TMI reactor No. 1, which is still operating, is decommissioned.
The $1 billion cleanup took 14 years to complete. Without the CMU robots, GPU would have been forced to recruit workers for short stints of cleanup duty at high cost and health risk.
"His team made the difference for us, when you look at the contribution it made in terms of human exposure and money to train people and bring people in," Mr. Pavelek said. "When you look at the money and expense [CMU saved], it was phenomenal.
"I have to tell you, I was amazed at the talent," he said. "[Dr. Whittaker] is an exceptionally intelligent man, but the team of students he put together astonished us."
Dr. Whittaker called it "a galvanizing experience that seeded the robotics movement."
"Before this, there was speculation on what robots might do and what the technology might become, but there were no robots at work in the world," he said. "It propelled new technology from ideas to implementation."
Since then, Dr. Whittaker has developed robots used inside mines and in exploration of seas and space. His team also developed the world champion robotic car. As part of Astrobotic Technology Inc., he hopes to win the $20 million Google Lunar X Prize by landing a robot on the moon in December 2010.
TMI occurred at a time when technology to clean up nuclear accidents didn't exist and few thought a cleanup would ever be necessary. Thirty years later, the experience still serves as the nuclear power industry's ultimate lesson in the importance of safety and the need to anticipate solutions to unforeseen problems.
"The perspective is, 'It will never happen again,' and it does," Dr. Whittaker said. "Then the perspective is, 'We'll be ready for it,' and we're not."
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 17, 2011 - 12:08am PT
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Scientists Project Path of Radiation Plume
By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: March 16, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/science/17plume.html?_r=1
Source: NYTimes
A United Nations forecast of the possible movement of the radioactive plume coming from crippled Japanese reactors shows it churning across the Pacific, and touching the Aleutian Islands on Thursday before hitting Southern California late Friday.
Get Science News From The New York Times » Health and nuclear experts emphasize that radiation in the plume will be diluted as it travels and, at worst, would have extremely minor health consequences in the United States, even if hints of it are ultimately detectable. In a similar way, radiation from the Chernobyl disaster in 1986 spread around the globe and reached the West Coast of the United States in ten days, its levels measurable but minuscule.
The projection, by the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization, an arm of the United Nations in Vienna, gives no information about actual radiation levels but only shows how a radioactive plume would probably move and disperse.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4774552
Dang it all this isn't good.
We will all be "Down Winders"
Simulation of the plume . . .
Forecast for Plume's Path Is a Function of Wind and Weather
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/science/plume-graphic.html?ref=science
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Mar 17, 2011 - 12:09am PT
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This is a Martin Mars water bomber. There must be something similar in the soviet union that can get to the site quicker than these planes from Vancouver Island.
I'm stil advocating a kamikaze brigrade building a berm around the entire site and start pumping water in, bomb the reactors with water with forest fire fighting planes. Bring some fire boats in and start pumping water
How much longer are the Navy guys going to wait before doing something ?
Nuke plant design faulty from the start
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukushima-mark-nuclear-reactor-design-caused-ge-scientist/story?id=13141287
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Mar 17, 2011 - 12:09am PT
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man! lets send super riley! if he is half as good as he talks he can walk across the ocean, reamin calm under pressure and tell those poor Japanese a thing or two!
more than likely though he will be as useful as baby sh#t. i cant belive the crap coming out of his mouth. his ancestors probably helped burn the witches as the stake as part of the ignorant mob.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 17, 2011 - 12:21am PT
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PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE
Dang it all this isn't good.
We will all be "Down Winders" soon . . .
Simulation of the plume . . .
Forecast for Plume's Path Is a Function of Wind and Weather
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/science/plume-graphic.html?ref=science
I know this is very low concentrations, but the point it will be here on Friday and well into Saturday, and then the more major plume will come in after that I would imagine dispersing all over the US.
Low levels yes, but it is gonna be here.
We are not talking high dosage acute exposure, we are talking low dose chronic exposure. You will breath this stuff in. You will eat it. It will fall into water sources. Very low dose chronic exposure inside the body is a major concern. They do not know the full effect of this. Acute yes, but long term chronic not so much. There are some studies and evidence for latent illnesses that can develop 10, 20, 30 years later due to low level chronic exposure from radioisotopes absorbed into the body.
Biological Effects of Radiation, by NRC
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/09.pdf
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Mar 17, 2011 - 12:45am PT
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Would our government so blatantly tell OUR citizen nuke workers to "get back in there" knowing it was "recognized as a suicide mission?"
Our government would send in the military. Suicide missions are part of the job description for them.
That is what the Russians did to control Chernobyl. They sent in their military.
Chernobyl military graveyard. (Many of the workers who drove or piloted these died from radiation poisoning or cancer.)
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Mar 17, 2011 - 12:46am PT
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The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
SPLAT!
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Mar 17, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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Chernobyl military graveyard. (Many of the workers who drove or piloted these died from radiation poisoning.)
someone already posted a link to this ...
Four hundred times more radioactive material was released than had been by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. However, compared to the total amount released by nuclear weapons testing during the 1950s and 1960s, the Chernobyl disaster released 1/100 to 1/1000 the radioactivity
In the aftermath of the accident, 237 people suffered from acute radiation sickness, of whom 31 died within the first three months
oh and riley, i got a job for ya. lets use your fat ass as a plug for the damaged reactor core. we'll stick ya in head first so the world doesnt have to listen to you.
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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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Mar 17, 2011 - 01:00am PT
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When I was in Russia in the 90's I met some men who were sent in with the military to clean it up. They were saying it was taking a good 10 years to start dying from all their cancers, and by then everyone they knew were sick or dead.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Mar 17, 2011 - 01:03am PT
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Of the 72,000 Russian Emergency Workers being studied, 216 non-cancer deaths are attributed to the disaster, between 1991 and 1998. The latency period for solid cancers caused by excess radiation exposure is 10 or more years; thus at the time of the WHO report being undertaken, the rates of solid cancer deaths were no greater than the general population. Some 135,000 people were evacuated from the area, including 50,000 from Pripyat.
tooth, i think you are correct. it does take a while to get things like leukemia.
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