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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Sep 12, 2009 - 03:15pm PT
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Swine flu kills people. Unpurposeful depopulation.
How are you going to prove that the vaccine kills even more people, and then say it was a conspiracy?
I have heard this forever about MMR vaccines. No CT ever looks at the stats and realizes that if everyone didn't take their vaccine set, an epidemic could sterilize the whole population through mumps. Voila, immediate depopulation through the inability to reproduce. But you think the conspiracy theorists think that one through one more step? nope.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2009 - 03:54pm PT
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Ok, everyone meet Dr. Len Horowitz. Much of what I'm saying he says better and he has the credentials you all need:
Project Camelot interviews Dr Len Horowitz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FTWIEYAVcA
http://www.projectcamelot.org/len_horowitz.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Horowitz
I think we need to be connected more to the natural world around us and be in "tune." There are other ways to combat disease, and vaccines now perhaps are not the best way. We need to grow up intellectually and spiritually. I would like to be more in control of my own body and health rather relying on forced vaccinations. There is a lot to say about holistic medicine. I have a very good Doctor friend who works for Scripps Medical in La Jolla, and he reminds me of Dr. Horowitz a great deal. They both are very similiar in knowledge base, zeal, and spirituality. They are both very well respected MDs.
It is interesting that Dr. Horowitz brings up the issue of Codex Alimentarius Guidelines. Boy, if you don't know what that is all about I sugggest you investigate. Think I'm making this dung up? Not even. If it wasn't so true and depressing, coming by Dec. 2009 or Jan. 2010, I would be laughing hysterically. But sadly it is true and much of what we have come to expect, freedom to make our own choices in foods, nutruition, vitamins, suppliments is going to go out the window.
The idea of Codex Alimentarius by the food and drug industry is based on Napoleonic Law -- what isn't expressly allowed is against the law and forbidden.
Are you starting to get the picture? It is about control, power, and oppression of the people. It is here now, and we are facing and living it. It seems to go hand in hand with disease, forced vaccinations, and now Codex Alimentarius.
People can't make this stuff up, we don't have that good of an imagination. Reality is becoming our own worse Hollywood dissaster, disease, sci-fi, space alien invasion, One New World Order evil government movie.
Food: Billions of People Expected to Die Under Current Codex Alimentarius Guidelines
http://www.infowars.com/billions-of-people-expected-to-die-under-current-codex-alimentarius-guidelines/
http://tinyurl.com/qzf8v
http://www.healthfreedomUSA.org
Edit:
You know, when the proverbial doo-doo hits the fan soon, I'm not going to have any pleasure in telling you I told you so. I would rather we all wake up and do something about it and resist for positive change. We need to take back our freedom and choice.
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Sep 12, 2009 - 04:02pm PT
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Klimmer, you can throw in all the codexes you want. The fact remains that conspiracy theorists think the vaccine for MMR or the flu is meant to depopulate the earth.
BEFORE there was the vaccine, the flu and mumps outbreaks killed hundreds of thousands of people and sterilized thousands.
Now we have the vaccine - and our population is growing much faster.
Given our history as a human race, wouldn't it be easier for them to not do anything to accomplish their goals? No vaccine? No painful shots that are so hard to get people in to take? Wouldn't that be the simpler explanation? Wouldn't more people be sold on your theory if this was the case?
I would like you to show me one case in history that the 'cure' killed more people than the the common flu has killed.
I would give them to you, but I don't think my credentials would be official enough for you unless I was on an interview with Alex Jones or something...
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Doug Buchanan
Mountain climber
Fairbanks Alaska
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Sep 12, 2009 - 04:14pm PT
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Item 1. One of the controlling contradictions of the current (poorly educated) human condition, that is controlling your mind right now, is the common failure to use accurate words, and the failure to use words that hold their dictionary meanings.
You were taught to make fools of yourselves by your institutionalized schooling (as was I). You must learn the errors of your institutionalized schooling, on your own, as an individual mind.
You train your mind by the words you use, and then, with that data analysis pattern in your neurons, your mind controls your conclusions.
If you wish to advance your knowledge beyond those around you, wisely disregard "good and evil", and most other nebulous terms which mean different things in different minds.
Instead, use "logical and illogical", that is, that which conforms to your current knowledge, and that which contradicts your current knowledge.
At the identification of a contradiction, instead of acting like Dick Cheney, Bush or Obama and their staffs, wisely to not deny the new knowledge. Instead ask real questions of the contradiction, to identify the resolution. Verify it with more questions. Your prior knowledge holds a 50 percent chance of being wrong, even if taught to you by the Dali Lama or Bush and their "experts".
Most wisely, upon identification of a contradiction, extensively question what you were taught by YOUR INSTITUTIONS, that is, your society, your religion, your government, your gender, your (any group of your membership).
Item 2. The wacko paranoid nut cases, when described more accurately, are found throughout the many spectrums of humans. They are equally among the street derelicts and the rich and powerful, BY DESIGN OF THE HUMAN MIND.
The Masons, their enemies, and the guys on the street and in the looney bins, each include the full spectrum of human mind perceptions.
Nobody holds a superior design of human mind. They are all the same design. Nobody is smarter than anyone else. We just learn different things.
Fools perceive that "scientists", "government", "christians", "democrats" or any other institutions are more "credible" than those "tinfoil head wackos". HUMANS DO NOT CONTROL CONCEPTS. CONCEPTS CONTROL HUMANS. Learn the concepts, not the "credibility" of "your institution leaders".
Among other DIVERSE experiences that I have sought and encountered, to synthesize diverse knowledge, if everybody encountered what I have encountered in regard to the pharmaceutical company boards of directors, the public would already have those directors on trial for their lives.
But that is the case with most powerful institution leaders, including those you trained your mind to foolishly support rather than question. The Clouser Scanlon court case again revealed that Park Service rangers and superintendents are completely comfortable with knowingly facilitating the therefore deaths of accident victims in National Parks, for budget excuses.
Power corrupts, that is, alters the perceptions of those who perceive their institutional power / superiority, by design of the human mind. You and they, respectively, do not control your and their minds. You train your mind with words, and then it controls your decisions.
The first thing that power does to the mind which adopts it, is to deny neural access to the prior learned concept of shame. Were it otherwise, wars could not exist. Read that again if you wish.
Ask the questions to recognize your prior training. Train your mind to ask new questions, especially questions of your socially induced, favorite belief's.
All those people who are "not involved in any conspiracy", and are "sincerely trying to solve problems" include those who are highly educated, institutionally trained, at every level of the institution, and SINCERELY believe that "collateral damage" is acceptable to "save the world from terrorists", even when the collateral damage of slaughtered civilians who are not terrorists, is over 50 percent of those killed, month after month after month.
A power-damaged mind WILL NOT ask itself any question that threatens its institutional power. It will knowingly kill, imprison or otherwise damage any number of "collateral damage" victims before it willingly surrenders any portion of its power.
The military example is obvious. The pharmaceutical industry profits, and government taxation power, should be equally obvious, among millions of institutional examples including the extremely powerful National Park Service.
What? Let individual climbers and other humans make their own decisions? Not even within the comprehension of the American Alpine Club and National Park Service leaders. Power-damaged minds are flawlessly predictable in regard to their institutional training.
Yet outside National Parks and American Alpine Club influence, climbers in the free mountains make their own decisions, where there are less problems and less trash, and the climbers therefore learn more knowledge. Those mountains prove the lies of the perpetually ignorant Park Pigs and AmerAC dolts, as do all logical analyses of institutional lies.
The above is part of the explanation of the human phenomenon as the most brilliantly designed comedy on the rock.
Learn the design. Ask the questions. Avoid institutionally induced decisions. Enjoy the comedy of those spouting "the company line" that makes fools of them. You will not be saved from the human phenomenon, but you can enjoy it more with more knowledge.
Oh, and rag any Alaska climber who has not yet sent something for the Alaska Mountaineering Museum at the Alaskan Alpine Club. Your ice axe with your name and a date on it. Or a half million bucks for new addition, for the good of the institution of course.
DougBuchanan.com
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John Vawter
Social climber
San Diego
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Sep 12, 2009 - 04:19pm PT
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Erich von Daniken wrote an even more popular series of books that "proved" aliens had visited the Earth and seeded technologies that could not have been developed without alien help.
A physician is more credible than a part-time editor, but you still can't accept what he's saying without question. He appears to be out of the practice of medicine and research, and into full time conspiracy theory book writing and marketing. And the Camelot organization clearly has the same agenda. Doesn't mean there is no truth in the claims, but it does not deserve your unquestioning belief.
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Sep 12, 2009 - 04:25pm PT
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Doug,
"Learn the design, ask the questions" is fine.
Telling people to avoid such and such decisions is just as bad as telling them to make those decisions.
You can't tell people what to think or decide just after telling them to think freely. If they learned the design and asked the questions, maybe the decision they choose coincides with the decision someone else settled on.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/28/regular.flu/index.html
Worldwide, the annual death toll from the flu is estimated to be between 250,000 and 500,000.
About 9 out of 10 of those deaths are among people older than 65, Currie said. Most times, they already have health problems that the flu makes worse, he said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic
The pandemic lasted from March 1918 to June 1920,[3] spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. It is estimated that anywhere from 50 to 100 million people were killed worldwide.[4][5][6][7][8] An estimated 500 million people, one third of the world's population (approximately 1.6 billion at the time), became infected.[5]
So when you can show me a vaccine that does a better job of depopulization than just letting the flu go on it's own, let us know!
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Sep 12, 2009 - 06:20pm PT
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who else here has done a PubMed lit. review on vaccines?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 12, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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who else here has done a PubMed lit. review on vaccines?
But isn't PubMed controlled by big pharma? Which is controlled by the illuminati? How could you believe anything you found there? Or in any so-called "scientific" research? Don't you know that PubMed, and the rest of science is all a vast conspiracy dedicated to fooling the 0.0001% of the world's population that hasn't already come under Satan's control.
Once they bring those last few brave souls under their control they'll...
Ummm... Just what was it they were going to do again? Oh, right, as soon as the last few free men and women have been caged, the neo-somethingorother cabal is going to depopulate the planet. Sorry, I forgot that for a minute. Foolish of me. Must have been a glitch in their transponder calibration that allowed me a few seconds of unregulated thought.
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Sep 12, 2009 - 07:13pm PT
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C'mon people!
Quote the sources. Which survey? How many GP's surveyed? 2? In which country?
I work with GP's who don't agree with this article.
"Most also believe the flu has turned out to be so mild in the vast majority of cases that the vaccine is not needed."
Could be they have done their research and see that 99% of those killed by the flu are in a totally different demographic than they are in and that they won't be carriers.
C'mon people. DO a little thinking for yourselves beyond the headlines!
Klimmer, it wasn't 1/2 of GP's, it was 1/2 of a group of 15 people who essentially decided to respond to a cosmo poll.
These weren't studies, they were magazine polls like you would see in Cosmo. They weren't journals or even peer-reviewed. And one interview n=15!! I work with more doctors than that! It was purely anecdotal - but that's all it takes to write news anymore eh?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 12, 2009 - 07:15pm PT
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Just a little dose of reality in yet another paranoid Klimmer thread.
I'm 90% sure that the H1N1 vaccine is the seasonal flu vaccine with the seasonal viruses simply replaced with the H1N1 virus. That means that unless they screwed up the aspect of the vaccine that ensures that the vaccine won't actually GIVE you the illness (which I really doubt), the vaccine will be exactly as safe or unsafe as you perceive the seasonal flu shots that millions of American get each year as being.
Oh also it was made by shapeshifting lizards from the 6th dimension who helped orchestrate the gov't conspiracy to perpetrate the attacks of 9/11.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 12, 2009 - 07:23pm PT
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here is the source:
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=4123491
there were several hundred GPs surveyed via email who where Pulse readers, the question asked was: Do you plan to have the swine flu vaccine yourself?
Apparently the claim is made based on the 115 responses to the survey.
There was no other question as far as I can see, so the reason why the responding GPs would not take the vaccine was not determined in this survey.
This was an "informal" survey...
draw your own conclusions.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2009 - 07:25pm PT
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Tooth,
Apparently they did the survey themselves, the publication. Can't a publication do a survey? Can't a publication do original work? The point is, it seems there is a lot of mistrust of what is happening with this particular Flu phenomenon within the medical community.
Also you misrepresented what they said . . .
"The Pulse survey questioned 15 doctors, while GP spoke to 216."
There are a lot of resources, people, whistle-blowers on the inside that are saying this time it is different. There is not a lot of trust anymore. Something has significantly changed and not for the better. Call it preminition if you like.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 12, 2009 - 07:33pm PT
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hey Klimmer, when the rapture comes can I have your rack?
The reason why the Docs said they wouldn't take it was not determined by the survey.
Many expect this variant of H1N1 to be relatively mild, not like the last one... so people are trying to make up their minds, weighing the risks... I don't think it is a matter of distrusting the New World Order...
....oh, and how'd you like that big Pharmaceuticals ad on the Pulse web page? guess we'll have to ignore what that web site has to offer, obviously a part of the conspiracy.
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Sep 12, 2009 - 07:37pm PT
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Sure, a publication can do that. Did you ask yourself their motivation? Or ethics?
THey can do it and throw out responses if they want. After all, it is an informal NEWS selling organization, and the point of doing it is to sell news - whether their target audience for the magazine is teens, MD's or whatever.
The media has really gotten you enrolled in their hype eh?
I'm just saying, believe whomever you want, but when you believe the guys hired to create news, that's just what you will get.
(and the fact that they were ballsy enough to use an informal survey of 15 respondents and actually PUT that in there gives me the right to quote it! 1000 GP's would be more meaningful, to me 15 and 215 is the same - I can find 215 who will answer one yes/no question any way I desire, then write a story about it)
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 12, 2009 - 07:38pm PT
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There are a lot of resources, people, whistle-blowers on the inside that are saying this time it is different. There is not a lot of trust anymore. Something has significantly changed and not for the better.
So Klimmer, here's a question for you. Not a loaded one, or a sarcastic one, but a serious one.
Suppose you are right, and that this time it is different. If the vaccine turns out to be part of a plot, and kills the people who take it, then I will accept that. I'll say you were right, and, if they haven't taken my balls, I'll ask what I can do to help get us out from under the tyranny.
But suppose you are wrong, and that it turns out millions of people around the world are vaccinated and nothing bad happens to them. Will you then say you we were right, and that your illuminati conspiracy theory was a just a loony idea that you are now prepared to give up?
D
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2009 - 08:37pm PT
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If there are alternative medicines and holistic practices and natural remedies that work to boost the immune system that don't involve shooting yourself with dead, (or possibly oops! Oh, sorry about that live virus, and no you can't sue) that make the vaccine, shouldn't that be a better way to go?
I do not know much about it but many are talking up the benefits of Colloidal Silver, B3, drinking lots of Green Tea, and doing whatever you can do to boost the immune system without taking an injected vaccine. Every year you are going to inject a new vaccine concoction engineered into your bloodstream? Sounds Frankensteinish.
These viruses are mutating quickly. Doesn't seem to me you can stay up with developing and testing vaccines to counter it quickly enough. Why would you put anything into your body that hasn't been tested correctly and adequately? And then there is the possibility of forced vaccinations? Does anyone see a problem with that?
In the infamous words of Nancy Reagan, "Just say NO."
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 12, 2009 - 08:41pm PT
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you don't even know what is in that "holistic," "natural" stuff, even if you grow it yourself you have little idea about how much of what you're putting into yourself...
...or even much of an idea about what it does.
That's better?
Why?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Sep 12, 2009 - 08:49pm PT
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You know - Klimmer might be right - lets get rid of ALL vaccines.
After all, there's been a dramatic shortage in the number of people in iron lungs infected with Polio, and how about more blind kids with Rubella.
Nothing says "god loves you" more than a debilitating disease.
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