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GDavis
Trad climber
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Sep 10, 2009 - 10:35pm PT
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Doesn't part of you want to fast forward fifty years and see if these discussions have changed at all?
oh well. You know where I stand on things, I'm guessing. A big mess, all of it.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 10, 2009 - 10:37pm PT
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Your point implies Fiction means that it didn't happen?
Read it and read the intro. then you tell me.
didn't say it wasn't a target. The murder of the civilian children in Nagaski and Hiroshimia and indirectly my own father, aren't exonerated by the fact that those cities were 'targets', either.
Manzanar is a bit hard to justify, as well.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 10, 2009 - 10:37pm PT
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Blue it again.
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Sep 10, 2009 - 10:46pm PT
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Interesting bluering. I started a classic metal thread that maybe
somewhat relevant here. I was also thinking about these issues.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&group=00001-01000&file=43-53
43.5. No cause of action arises for:
(b) Criminal conversation.
Adultery is included here, as it's been ruled a criminal act.
A President was allegedly impeached for the above, and refused to
leave. A joint venture between Fanny Mae, Sally Mae and the DoD
was reported around this time also. Subsequently the Pentagon
news reported that payloads of missiles were going to be armed
with aphrodisiacs to induce acts of homosexuality among enemy
targets.
Perhaps the US had a morality breakdown with unlawful joint
ventures which by law do bring liability against the US?
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 10, 2009 - 10:51pm PT
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Ward Churchill was more right than wrong,
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sully
Trad climber
CA
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Sep 10, 2009 - 10:56pm PT
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Jaybro's right. Read Slaughterhouse Five. Dresden was a dirty little secret and Vonnegut brought it to light. "And so it goes." Japanese internment at Manzanar was inexcusable too.
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Bboi
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:01pm PT
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Peace
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:06pm PT
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we digress.
Peace indeed.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:09pm PT
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Yeah, it's definitely the Jooos fault, at least in part, if only Hitler woulda finished them all off, AND we never developed oilfields for the rat-F*#k Saudis, everything would be harmonious nowadays.
Come to think of it, it is all the fault of US and the Brits. We liberated the Jews and developed those awful oilfields for the rotten SandPeople. F*#k the West!!!! Buncha money hungry rats!
Ward Churchill is totally right on, man.
It's all coming to me now. If only....
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
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"We also warned Afghanistan and Iraq. They gambled too.
warned them about what? Cornform to our ways and beliefs or we will come and destroy ur country and kill u? Wow! That sounds great. I'm so proud to be a part of that. Not!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:12pm PT
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Yep, the Afghanis were given like 10 days to fork over Bin Laden.
Saddam had 3 days to relinquish power and get out.
Both gave us the finger, both went down.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:15pm PT
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blue - where does pointing out a known mossad involvement, documenting by Fox and others, suddenly warrant the slander and teh hitler thing ?
I'd like to just stick to the known facts please...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
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Are you going to tell me the Mossad was behind the 1st bombing too?
KSM was a Mossad agent? The planner.
So you are saying the Jews did it?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:23pm PT
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"Yeah, it's definitely the Jooos fault, at least in part, if only Hitler woulda finished them all off, AND we never developed oilfields for the rat-F*#k Saudis, everything would be harmonious nowadays.
Come to think of it, it is all the fault of US and the Brits. We liberated the Jews and developed those awful oilfields for the rotten SandPeople. F*#k the West!!!! Buncha money hungry rats!
Ward Churchill is totally right on, man.
It's all coming to me now. If only...."
............
Blue, why do you immediate go to the extreme of thinking that if we aren't completely innocent, then we must be completely guilty. That is black and white thinking. I think it is better to take a hard look at the things America has done wrong, so we can better understand why people hate us and perhaps stop doing certain things so that we have a better chance of avoiding future terrorist attacks.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:26pm PT
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Peace, now.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
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I remember the story, Pagan, but it don't jive....Think about ALL the other evidence that contadicts that.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 10, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
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Gil Scott-Heron:Work For Peace,
http://vodpod.com/watch/622149-gil-scott-heron-work-for-peace
Back when Eisenhower was the President,
Golf courses was where most of his time was spent.
So I never really listened to what the President said,
Because in general I believed that the General was politically dead.
But he always seemed to know when the muscles were about to be flexed,
Because I remember him saying something, mumbling something about a Military Industrial Complex.
Americans no longer fight to keep their shores safe,
Just to keep the jobs going in the arms making workplace.
Then they pretend to be gripped by some sort of political reflex,
But all they're doing is paying dues to the Military Industrial Complex.
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary.
The Military and the Monetary,
get together whenever they think its necessary,
They turn our brothers and sisters into mercenaries, they are turning the planet into a cemetery.
The Military and the Monetary, use the media as intermediaries,
they are determined to keep the citizens secondary, they make so many decisions that are arbitrary.
We're marching behind a commander in chief,
who is standing under a spotlight shaking like a leaf.
but the ship of state had landed on an economic reef,
so we knew he was going to bring us messages of grief.
The Military and the Monetary,
were shielded by January and went storming into February,
Brought us pot bellied generals as luminaries,
two weeks ago I hadn't heard of the son of a bitch,
now all of a sudden he's legendary.
They took the honour from the honourary,
they took the dignity from the dignitaries,
they took the secrets from the secretary,
but they left the bitch an obituary.
The Military and the Monetary,
from thousands of miles away in a Saudi Arabian sanctuary,
had us all scrambling for our dictionaries,
cause we couldn't understand the f*#kin vocabulary.
Yeah, there was some smart bombs,
but there was some dumb ones as well,
scared the hell out of CNN in that Baghdad hotel.
The Military and the Monetary,
they get together whenever they think its necessary,
War in the desert sometimes sure is scary,
but they beamed out the war to all their subsidiaries.
Tried to make So Damn Insane a worthy adversary,
keeping the citizens secondary,
scaring old folks into coronaries.
The Military and the Monetary,
from thousands of miles in a Saudi Arabian sanctuary,
kept us all wondering if all of this was really truely, necessary.
We've got to work for Peace,
Peace ain't coming this way.
If we only work for Peace,
If everyone believed in Peace the way they say they do,
we'd have Peace.
The only thing wrong with Peace,
is that you can't make no money from it.
The Military and the Monetary,
they get together whenever they think its necessary,
they've turned our brothers and sisters into mercenaries,
they are turning the planet, into a cemetery.
Got to work for Peace,
Peace ain't coming this way.
We should not allow ourselves to be mislead,
by talk of entering a time of Peace,
Peace is not the absence of war,
it is the absence of the rules of war and the threats of war and the preparation for war.
Peace is not the absence of war,
it is the time when we will all bring ourselves closer to each other,
closer to building a structure that is unique within ourselves
because we have finally come to Peace within ourselves.
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary.
Get together whenever they think its necessary,
they've turned our brothers and sisters into mercenaries,
they are turning parts of the planet, into a cemetery.
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary,
We hounded the Ayatollah religiously,
Bombed Libya and killed Quadafi's son hideously.
We turned our back on our allies the Panamanians,
and saw Ollie North selling guns to the Iranians.
Watched Gorbachev slaughtering Lithuanians,
We better warn the Amish,
they may bomb the Pennsylvanians.
The Military and the Monetary,
get together whenever they think its necessary,
they have turned our brothers and sisters into mercenaries,
they are turning the planet, into a cemetery.
I don't want to sound like no late night commercial,
but its a matter of fact that there are thousands of children all over the world
in Asia and Africa and in South America who need our help.
When they start talking about 55 cents a day and 70 cents a day,
I know a lot of folks feel as though that,
thats not really any kind of contribution to make,
but we had to give up a dollar and a half just to get in the subway nowadays.
So this is a song about tommorrow and about how tommorrow can be better. if we all,
"Each one reach one, Each one try to teach one".
Nobody can do everything,
but everybody can do something,
everyone must play a part,
everyone got to go to work, Work for Peace.
Spirit Say Work, Work for Peace
If you believe the things you say, go to work.
If you believe in Peace, time to go to work.
Cant be wavin your head no more, go to work.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2009 - 12:04am PT
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It just goes to show that if attack the United States and kill thousands of innocent people you will unleash the dogs of War.
Top Secret info deleted.
Juan
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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Sep 11, 2009 - 12:05am PT
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Let's discuss those....There are some dams around that must go.
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