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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Ernie used to Box...
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Hey Rocky, you the one that brought up the punching idea, I was just trying to do a little healing. So what now, don't want to take your medicine? All you can handle, but I dont' wail on old guys usually mostly cause I am one myself. I don't think this was the theme Karl had in mind when he started this thread so it must be a nice surprise.
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Talk about bad blood, I have a couple of stories, you wanted specifics well, here you go.
Let's begin with the most recent. I was up at Tahquitz today, most of the climbers I met up with on the trail, coming and going were a bunch of a*es, stuck up, and seemed to just take themselves WAY too seriously. Of all the climbers I passed only two groups were friendly, the guys who parked next to us in Humber park-cool dudes, super nice guys.
Later heading down the trail a couple of guys, (young) chatted my daughter and I up! they were funny and sweet.
Thing is, my daughter and I are friendly, outgoing and cheerful, not in anyone's way, she even remarked about the attitudes of people we came across today.
Revisiting the past with a more specific example, I used to climb with a woman named "Karen", we had fun, she was cool, until one day I posted some remark she found offensive on a climber forum, and basically she wrote me off as a friend. Here is the thing, it was not about her, nothing at all, the comment was a climbing ethic topic with no relation to her but she sure took it personally.
Frankly, reflecting back, she definitely had some weird issues to get all bent out of shape over my comment that had nothing what so ever to do with her.
Third bad blood. Once again, wrote some lame comment online, not directed at anyone, just spouting off about random stuff and another friend took it personally accusing me of being insensitive towards him!!!!! WTF, it wasn't about him, I was just being silly, I made a negative comment about cross-country skiing. Later he came to me saying, "You know I like this kind of skiing and that was offensive....blau, blau, blau,....."
he wrote me off as well....
Believe me, I more than willing to apologize if I open my mouth and somehow say something that you don't like. The people who know me would agree I am not at all mean, or nasty, nor go out of my way to get under other people's skin.
It hurts that I was written off so quickly when I honestly did not do a damn thing wrong!!!! again, I would apologize even if I was or wasn't in the wrong!!!!
Oh well.....what are you going to do? I've done my part in trying to mend those above situations but to no avail.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Karen, I personally wouldnt sweat the small stuff, the world is full of aholes, me and Rocky are two prime examples. Just ignore the ignoramses like us and enjoy life. Ok, Rok, a beer it is, but I can't find the wallstaller right now, its around here somewhere....hey, I just realized YOU the one who owe me a cold one, what kinda tricky rhetoric are you using?
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Blotch and Karl, do you have that right? Chapman punched Bachar on Ronnie's behalf, not the other way around.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Karl,
good comments. The problem I have is that I am more than willing to sit down and talk things through and try to patch things up. But, if the other party won't acknowledge their actions and just wants to "put it behind us" and pretend that nothing happened it is hard for me to forgive.
Part of being in a relationship, and whether we like it or not, most climbing partnerships are relationships, is being able to have frank and honest discussion when things go badly. If we can't have those types of discussions then there really is no relationship.
I am way past picking up partner of any age, sex or ability just to go climbing. For me, climbing is about making relationships. That's why it is important for me to be able to communicate with my climbing partners.
Having said all that, Karl, you are probably correct that bad blood and trust are different things. I will have to give that some more thought.
Bruce
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2009 - 03:23am PT
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Peter wrote
"Blotch and Karl, do you have that right? Chapman punched Bachar on Ronnie's behalf, not the other way around."s
I'm confused. I don't remember bringing up that famous bad blood incident at all anywhere, particularly in this thread.
I was impressed with Ron's memorial speaking about Bachar. He credited the friction and competition he had with John with pushing him to heights he wouldn't have otherwise reached, and gave us a positive vision to take with us and use for ourselves and our community.
Peace
Karl
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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yeah, Dingus, some things are better left unsaid.
I was sitting by Kauk the other day when he got called up, it is my sincere belief that he was not planning on speaking...
What he did manage to say (among other things) was "I've had a lot of climbing partners and of them all, he was the best."
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Ray-J
Social climber
Los Angeles, CA
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No getting past all the "bad blood" caused by climbers in my life, - damege to life was so severe for so long all I can sense is the hope I'll never lay eyes on the losers again.
No to mention the loss to the climbing community and the sport for attempting to suppress my game-changing designs out of their own weak envy,
Ray
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seamus mcshane
climber
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"Don't sweat the petty, Just pet the sweaty."
Some sage...
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Rokjox, I heard you used to climb with Senator Larry Craig. and liked it. Sounds like you are straddling the proverbial fence...thats gotta hurt. You owe me a sixpack now, and you'll have to wear a little apron when you serve it, cold please and a few for my Cali buddies here on ST as well.
hey Ray, You kicked ass back in the day. Allot naysayers still around, but you were out there getting it done. My hat is off to you and your efforts are still appreciated. Yeah, you stepped out of line to a different drummer and that will always draw allot of fire.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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DMT...Good story. The only thing worse than having someone unload feelings and deeds onto you that you weren't looking to shoulder is having them follow it up with statements about how you are supposed to feel about and deal with their revelations.
Just fer example...nothing calms a woman down like telling her to "calm down" because she's "over-reacting" when she's bothered about something (er...something you did). Yep, tell and angry woman that she's over reacting, and she's be as passive as a lamb within seconds. Garunteed. Ask me how I know.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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How do you know Melissa?
and calm down, like a women, you sound like youre overreacting.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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I walked into that one. ;-)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
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I think it would be pretty funny if DMT=Roxjock but I know it ain't so.
Melissa's example is limited. Of course telling somebody how THEY should Be puts them on the spot and feels like judgement. Folks with issues resolving relationship stress or heck, just about everybody, would be well served by checking out the work of Marshall Rosenberg's Non-violent communication. It allows you to state where you are coming from without needlessly judging and labeling people around you in the process.
http://www.cnvc.org/
http://www.nonviolentcommunication.com/
Of course, people play dishonest games even with attempts as good communication. I envision poor results even with "I understand you'll be getting your period soon and feel the intensity of your words toward me are a product of inner stress you're experiencing."
Letting go of stuff can involve processing with someone or it can be internal. Things can be situational. If we told the partner to roast in a boiling pot of waste effluent, sometimes a few words later could be in order.
Personally, I think folks who risk grievous bodily injury for fun as a sport probably could stand to pump up some emotional courage to face other stuff as well.
Folks can claim the deal is done and they are stuck with their bad blood but, if you know yourself inside, you will probably see that you suffer from it, subtly but it keeps you from being free.
Jaybro wrote
"I was sitting by Kauk the other day when he got called up, it is my sincere belief that he was not planning on speaking... "
Complimented Kauk on what he said. He told me he went up there with nothing prepared. Kauk is amazing... when he was young, i felt he was one of the most inarticulate people I could think of. I didn't think he could express himself for anything. Now he is a profound orator in his own deep, straightforward way.
Shows that people can change.
Peace
Karl
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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"Melissa's example is limited. Of course telling somebody how THEY should Be puts them on the spot and feels like judgement. Folks with issues resolving relationship stress or heck, just about everybody, would be well served by checking out the work of Marshall Rosenberg's Non-violent communication."
Did you mean for this to be ironic?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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You're probably just reading too much into it cause of being an emotional girl type
We're saying the same things, however just because it's not cool to tell someone judgmental things about them doesn't mean we have to avoid being real and saying how We feel.
But if you want ironic, let me judge thusly, those who wish to be protected from reality and how people feel are indulging in wimpy weakness. Expecting everyone to shut up about their pain for your comfort is worse than any form of retrobolting.
I've known families where somebody who dared expose abuse was ostracized as rocking the family boat while the perpetrator of severe abuse was left alone, cause nobody wanted to think the guy paying the bills might have big issues.
not cool in my opinion
Peace
karl
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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"Expecting everyone to shut up about their pain for your comfort is worse than any form of retrobolting."
Knowingly making others uncomfortable so that you can be more comfortable and calling it honest, peaceful dialogue is passive agressive.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2009 - 06:05pm PT
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Could be, devil is in the details and we all have our stuff.
A person who exposed some serious abuse later regretted she did it with emotions that intended to punish her abuser, but she didn't regret letting the truth out nor renounce that she told the truth.
Should she have kept quiet? Waited until she could expose abuse with complete compassion? Sometime the sh#t flys and that's why the bad blood needs continual cleanup. They're still working on it.
Also, a lot of times we shut up because we fear bringing up something uncomfortable. How do we know? Some folks may be just waiting to clear the air about some past stress but don't know how to bring it up or figure it's up to the other guy. With the attitude of Love and Good will, most things that seem hard can be well received.
(Had to say I was sorry last night at a reunion gathering for a bad stock tip I gave to a high school buddy that wound up costing him $80,000. Didn't know if he had a negative charge about it and I'm glad to know he didn't)
Peace
Karl
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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In her shoes, assuming the abuse was pretty hideous...I'd probably hate the f*#ker that abused me till the day I died and hate anyone that told me that I should go heal my bad blood with my abuser.
If peace with everyone is what you seek to make you feel whole, then that is great FOR YOU.
Other people prefer a different path that is maybe harder (maybe not), but feels more honest and correct FOR US.
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