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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Jul 24, 2009 - 09:54am PT
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John,
very well put.
Instead of teaching sensitivity maybe we should be teaching some insensitivity!
I wish there were more people who see the wisdom in that statement and lived by it!
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Jul 24, 2009 - 12:43pm PT
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and we are all lucky the LASD is a localized problem and some are fixing it.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jul 24, 2009 - 01:18pm PT
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I would be pretty bent if I were Gates.
Obama said this...
"I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama told ABC's "Nightline."
I'm pretty sure the arrest didn't need to happen despite the home owner's loud yelling.
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ian molloy
Trad climber
California
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Jul 24, 2009 - 01:19pm PT
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The cop arrested an innocent man.
The cop knew professor Gates was innocent but arrested him anyway.
Evidently, the cop did not care for Gate's personality or opinions, both of which are legal. Acting in his official capacity as an officer of the law, the cop arrested Gates driven purely by personal motives. Cops who arrest people for their own personal motives and satisfaction are idiots. What a waste of community resources. The cop acted stupidly.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 01:57pm PT
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The differences of opinion in this thread is interesting. I think some of you believe that being disrespectful to a police officer even in your own home is justifiable grounds for arrest.
And we don't know that Gates was even being disrespectful because his version of events is different from Crowley's. Crowley and Gates were alone in the house together apparently without witnesses.
Conservatives tend to believe that disrespect to authority (the police) is a crime, but they also believe in the sanctity of the home and the right to bear arms.
If Massachusetts had adopted the Castle Doctrine, would Gates have been within his rights to blow Crowley away with a shotgun when Crowley entered his home uninvited?
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 24, 2009 - 01:58pm PT
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There's other possibilities here. e.g. Gates knew exactly what he was doing and set the cop up.
He could have insulted the cop to provoke him to arrest him for no good cause knowing the charges would be dropped. Free publicity and coverage showing racism.
Or the cop might have been an a-hole to Gates and set him off. I'm polite to cops, but if a cop was being a serious a-hole to me I'm not going to kowtow forever. Gates, a friend of the president and professor, knew he wasn't doing anything illegal, and perhaps wasn't willing to take any sh#t knowing if he was arrested it would blow up in the cops face, which it did.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
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"Gates, a friend of the president and professor, knew he wasn't doing anything illegal, and perhaps wasn't willing to take any sh#t knowing if he was arrested it would blow up in the cops face, which it did."
I think this is a possibility. Gates was born in 1950 in the South. He has made his career studying race relations and is very famalier with the civil rights movement's tactics.
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Saltydog
climber
NC
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Jul 24, 2009 - 02:07pm PT
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henry louis gates, jr. acted stupidly.
the cop could have used better judgement, but not a racist.
and obama wasn't there.
next...
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 02:12pm PT
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" henry louis gates, jr. acted stupidly.
the cop could have used better judgement, but not a racist.
and obama wasn't there.
next..."
You weren't there either, but that doesn't stop you from expressing you opinion that someone acted stupidly. NONE of us was there, but ALL of us are expressing our opinions. When we hear an opinion that we disagree with we say "you weren't there" but neither were we...
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ian molloy
Trad climber
California
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Jul 24, 2009 - 02:13pm PT
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This was a case of an esteemed Harvard professor providing opinions to cop with a fragile ego. That Gates was taking time out of his busy day to provide a lecture (for free, by the way) ought to have been recognized by the cop as a chance to learn something. Alternatively, if the cop was not interested in receiving a lecture from the scholar, he could have walked away. Kudos to the professor for offering free opinions to a cop.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
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This came out before Obama's remarks in response to the question during his press conference.
It's funny how predictable the reaction of cops is when any other cop is implicated in anything. How do they know what Crowley's actions were? He was in the house alone with Gates.
It is statements like this that make me doubt the honesty and integrity of cops when they are speaking in defense of other cops. They will defend their "brothers" whether right or wrong.
Union: Cop in Gates arrest a ‘good sergeant’
By Laura Crimaldi
Wednesday, July 22, 2009
EmailE-mail PrintablePrint Comments(146) Comments LargerSmallerText size Bookmark and Share Share Buzz up!
The union representing the Cambridge police officer who arrested Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. said today that he has the union’s“full and unqualified support.”
The statement is the first comment from the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association on behalf of Sgt. James Crowley and makes no mention of Gates’ demand that the officer apologize for the arrest.
“The Association expresses its full and unqualified support for the actions taken by Sergeant Crowley in response to the report of a possible break in at a residence on Ware Street in Cambridge,” the statement read. “Sergeant Crowley is a highly respected veteran supervisor with a distinguished record in the Cambridge Police Department. His actions at the scene of this matter were consistent with his training, with the informed policies and practices of the Department, and with applicable legal standards.”
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jul 24, 2009 - 02:33pm PT
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"I read the police report. I was on the cop's side of this all along right up to where he arrested Gates. "
Of course you were - the cop wrote it. lol That's kinda like reading your autobiography and thinking, "You know, I AM pretty f*#king cool!!"
HighGravity - Yeah, I'm amazed too. I've forced the issue before, on large purchases, when I forgot my ID or just didn't have it cause I wasn't driving. Had to get the manager involved. Pretty silly. I've also forced the issue before when getting an amount refunded to my card.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 02:36pm PT
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"Of course you were - the cop wrote it. lol"
That is my point. Even after just taking just his side of the story and even if I assume it is all true, I still find that he acted stupidly and indefensibly.
Gates' biggest mistake was not grabbing is video camera before being confrontational.
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 24, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
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"I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama told ABC's "Nightline."
Seems fair.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jul 24, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
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ahh...sorry, granite. I read your post out of context.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
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Nefarious, no problem, I don't think I was very clear about that.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 03:30pm PT
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Because he is a politician, it was stupid for Obama to use the word stupidly and he realizes that.
But I am not a politician--I can say what I think and not worry about losing votes and arresting him was stupid.
Obama Expresses His Regrets On Gates Incident
President Obama said Friday that he “could have calibrated” his words more carefully in the controversy over the arrest of Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. but added that he believed there was an “overreaction” by both sides in a case that has inflamed racial tensions across the country.
Mr. Obama said he hoped the case became “a teachable moment” to be used to improve relations between minorities and police officers.
The president conveyed his sentiment to the police sergeant, James Crowley, in a telephone call earlier Friday. Mr. Obama said he disagreed that he should not have stepped into the issue, saying it is the job of the president “black or white” to contribute to improving relations.
At the end of the call, Mr. Obama said, there was a discussion about the sergeant, Professor Gates and him having a beer at the White House.
“I obviously helped to contribute ratcheting it up, I wanted to make clear that in my choice of words, I think, I unfortunately, I think, gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department or Sergeant Crowley specifically,” Mr. Obama said. “And I could have calibrated those words differently. And I told this to Sergeant Crowley.”
“I continue to believe, based on what I have heard, that there was an overreaction in pulling Professor Gates out of his home to the station,” Mr. Obama added. “I also continue to believe, based on what I heard, that Professor Gates probably overreacted as well. My sense is you’ve got two good people in a circumstance in which neither of them were able to resolve the incident in the way that it should have been resolved and the way they would have liked it to be resolved.”
The brief and surprise appearance by Mr. Obama before reporters on Friday afternoon was an attempt by the White House to move beyond the controversy that has dominated the last two days of news coverage. Only hours earlier, Robert Gibbs, the press secretary, said the president had made his final remarks about the issue. But advisers said the mounting criticism from police groups and others persuaded the president to address the matter in an attempt to move on.
The five-minute call between Mr. Obama and Mr. Crowley took place Friday afternoon. Aides said the president had not yet spoken to Professor Gates.
Mr. Obama did not use the word “apology,” but aides said that was the sentiment conveyed during his phone call with Sergeant Crowley.
The controversy, Mr. Obama acknowledged, overshadowed his attempt to explain the effort to overhaul the nation’s health care system. By speaking about the matter again on Friday, the president hoped to turn the page.
Professor Gates was arrested on July 16, when police were called to his Cambridge home after a report of a burglary in progress. The professor said he told the police that he lived in the house and that he was jimmying open a damaged front door. Still, the police report said he was arrested for “loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space.”
The charges against Professor Gates were later dropped, and the city of Cambridge, its police department, the Middlesex County district attorney’s office and Professor Gates issued a joint statement calling the incident “regrettable and unfortunate.”
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 03:40pm PT
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I don't agree with all of this, but I understand why he feels this way.
White Men Can't Judge
Keith Boykin
The most disturbing aspect of the news coverage about Henry Louis Gates' arrest has been the running commentary by white men about appropriate decorum for black men.
Of course, it was no surprise that blowhards like Rush Limbaugh would jump in to defend the white police officer and impugn Professor Gates. Nor that the conservative radio talk show host would turn his attack to President Obama after the president labeled the Cambridge Police Department behavior "stupid."
Limbaugh's an easy case. More troubling is the commentary from Sergeant James Crowley himself, an "expert" on racial profiling who still doesn't understand why a black man would be upset to be accused of breaking into his own house.
"From the time he opened the door it seemed that [Gates] was very upset, very put off that I was there in the first place," Sergeant Crowley told Boston sports radio station WEEI this week. "Not just what he said, but the tone in which he said it, just seemed very peculiar -- even more so now that I know how educated he is."
So educated people can't get upset?
I'm a Harvard graduate, and I reacted angrily just a few days ago when a New York City police officer stopped me Sunday inside a Manhattan subway station and accused me of jumping the turnstiles, which I clearly had not done. I made a scene, much like Professor Gates probably did, because I felt I was being unfairly singled out.
After I proved that I had entered the station legally, an unknown black woman standing nearby came to my defense. "Do you know who he is? He worked in the White House," she said, much to my surprise.
In fact, it's the "educated" and "successful" black men who are most likely to become indignant in racial profiling situations. Many younger black men I know suffer through random police stops on a regular basis and have grown accustomed to the procedure. But older, middle-class and upper-income blacks are often shocked when the police come for them, too. Yet in the eyes of the police, a black Harvard professor is just another potential suspect.
The officer in the Gates case wrote in his police report that the professor exhibited "loud and tumultuous behavior, in a public place." Actually, the professor was in a private place until the officer -- who admitted in the report that Gates "appeared to be a resident" -- asked him to step outside. But even in public, why can't a black man be loud when he's angry about real or perceived police harassment?
And why wouldn't an expert in racial profiling understand the long history of police abuse of African American men and consider that in evaluating Gates' response to the situation? After everything black men have been through in this country, from slavery to segregation to racial denialism, it's a wonder that well-educated black men like Gates and Obama are usually so controlled.
That's what CNN anchor Lou Dobbs seemed to miss Thursday night on his show when he asked CNN contributor Roland Martin to calm down in responding to the ridiculous charges about Barack Obama's citizenship. "You're yelling and you're getting awful excited about something that doesn't require this level of remarks," Dobbs scolded Martin.
Dobbs had just finished expressing his doubts about Professor Gates in a segment with CNN's Soledad O'Brien when he expressed sympathy with those who questioned the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate. So let me get this straight. We're supposed to believe a lone white police officer in Massachusetts but not believe the entire state of Hawaii about Obama's birth?
Yes, in our society, white men are considered believable and those pesky people of color (Hawaiians or African Americans) are not. That's why all the evening news anchors on every news network (CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ABC, CBS, NBC) are white, and nearly all of those are men. And that's why a 42-year-old cop is more credible than a distinguished 58-year-old Harvard professor.
No matter how much progress we've made, black men still don't have the right to get upset and indignant, even in their own homes. Crotchety old white guys like Rush Limbaugh and Lou Dobbs can foam at the mouth on radio and television all day about immigrants and blacks, but a black male public figure can't complain too loudly. That would be ungrateful and undignified.
And it doesn't matter what your status if you're a black man. A black TV personality can't get upset with a white guy on CNN. A black White House veteran can't get upset with the NYPD on the subway. A black Harvard professor can't get upset with the Cambridge Police in his house. And apparently a black president can't get upset in his house either.
She won't say it, but Judge Sonia Sotomayor was right when she spoke about a wise Latina judge often reaching a better decision than a wise white man. Many white men still can't judge these situations fairly because they don't understand what it means to be black in America.
Whether you're a pundit, a professor or the president, if you're a black man you better know your place.
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Fresh
Trad climber
meffa, ma
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Jul 24, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
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"You have not had long experience of people repeatedly discriminating against you and suspecting you and people like you because of your race. If you had, you may have reacted differently. "
you know, you're right. blacks are more tempermental because they're outraged at whites for their racism, so let's give them some leeway when they get outraged. also, while we're at it, why don't we cut them some slack if their test scores aren't as high. we all know blacks are just inherently stupider than whites, right?
sound good? sounds like a real winning strategy to me.
in seriousness, I don't know who are worse for black people, racists or their sympathizers.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 24, 2009 - 04:05pm PT
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"Gates' biggest mistake was not grabbing is video camera before being confrontational."
I'd imagine that would have solved the problem. Think Gates would have started up with his "your momma" crap if he were being filmed?
And from what I've read here, conservatives are not saying that being extremely disrespectful and disruptive to a cop trying to do his job should be an arrestable offense. They're saying it's a dumb-ass thing to do and those doing it shouldn't be surprised when then do get arrested. And it doesn't have anything to do with race.
You may be on something with one observation: conservatives deal with the world the way it is (people who give cops sh#t for no reason tend to get arrested on bullshit charges), liberals deal with the world they think it should be (cop should just take said sh#t, turn the other cheek, and walk away).
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